Are Water Ionizers a Gimmick?

Here are some questions you might be asking yourself about water ionizers:

  • If water ionizers are so good, why do so few people know about them? 
  • Why do people like Stephen Lower or Dr. Weil claim that water ionizers are a scam when tens of thousands of people refer the machines to their family and friends with fantastic reviews?
  • Why do so many companies in the industry claim that they are the best and badmouth other companies?
  • And, last but certainly not least, why are they so bloody expensive?

When I was in the water ionizer business, I found it was virtually impossible to sell anybody a water ionizer.  I sold about 500 Tyent machines, but every sale came from people contacting me through internet advertising or by a word of mouth referral.  It is very difficult to convince anyone to spend thousands of dollars on a water ionizer when you can get water for free from your tap, especially with so much conflicting information on the internet.  

Very few people in our society understand that most forms of sickness and degenerative disease are the result of a process rather than an event.  People take their good health for granted.  If people fee OK, they assume that everything is OK in their body with little or no regard for the truth.  

Anyone that drinks ionized water realizes that everyone should be drinking the water for its many benefits. However, trying to convince someone to drink the water that isn’t sick or a health nut is like trying to sell snow to an Eskimo (sorry if that is politically incorrect, but I’m an old guy). 

Why is it so difficult to get people to buy a water ionizer, or even try drinking the water?  There are a lot of reasons, some valid, some invalid, and some that are the fault of the players in the water ionizer industry itself. 

Let’s start by stating outright that water ionizers are not a gimmick.  They are incredibly effective machines that are helping hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people around the world.

How do I know? 

Ionized water changed my health for the better in a number of ways. I have spoken to hundreds of others that have experienced the benefits of the water. When I was in the water ionizer business, I was responsible for repairing any machines (it was rare and the source of the problem was usually damage caused during shipping). maged during shipping. I learned really quickly how important the water is to people when they call up in a panic because their machine isn’t working and they want to know how quickly we can get their machine back up and running.  Once you start drinking the water and experiencing the benefits, it becomes a necessity of life. 

What about the quack watchers such as the widely quoted Stephen Lower and physicians like Dr. Weil who have written articles based upon their belief that water ionizers don’t or can’t work?  I have been researching their articles one by one in an attempt to understand how they can write what they write.  It turns out that they either have an agenda, or they simply have not done their homework. None of the naysayers are drinking the water now,or have even tried drinking the water. They have not tested the water themselves to determine if they derive any benefits, and they have not interviewed others who have benefited from the water. 

Stephen Lower has been contacted by many people questioning his position on ionized water.  He has admitted in writing that he has not tested the water and that it probably works.  However, Lower continues to maintain his stance until he has seen scientific studies that support the use of the water.  Many studies are underway, so it is simply a matter of time.  What boggles my mind, is that Stephen Lower’s fictional writings are quoted on Wikipedia as research.  It just goes to show you that you should be very careful about what you read on the internet. 

Others naysayers read reviews written by people such as Stephen Lower and quote from what they have read without doing any actual research. They claim that that science doesn’t support water ionizers which they use as an argument that water ionizers are a hoax.  They base their theories on the fact that the acidic levels of the stomach would negative charges found in alkaline ionized water.  What they fail to understand is that ionized water passes through the stomach immediately, thereby allowing the negative charges in the water to become effective antioxidants.  If you don’t believe me, try a simple experiment yourself.  If you drink three 16 ounce glasses of tap or bottled water in a short period of time such as 5 minutes, you will find that you are bloated and uncomfortable for a couple of hours.  If you drink three 16 ounce glasses of alkaline ionized water in the same five minute period, you will find that you are not bloated at all, and you won’t experience any discomfort. The doctors or scientists that have never done any research or testing can talk and write all they want, but until they do their own testing, their comments are meaningless.  

The primary reason people don’t drink ionized water is that most of us have never heard of it.   In fact, far less than 1% of people are even aware of the terms alkaline water or ionized water. The lack of awareness is the responsibility of the water ionizer industry. Other than the great work being done by the Enagic reps who spread the word about their kangen/ionized water, nobody is building awareness. The companies that do advertise water ionizers, spend their money and time trying to convince us that their product is the best and that other products are inferior. The net effect of the archaic marketing efforts of these companies is to confuse the public.

Another reason so few people drink ionized water is the high retail price charged for the machines. The Enagic MLM company charges nearly $4000 for its machine. Companies like Jupiter, Life Ionizers, and Tyent charge  between $2,500 and $3,000 for their top end machines and about $2,000 for their lower priced products.  That is a lot of money for something that nobody except the people that sell them seem to recommend.

My goal since I started this blog has been to drive the price of good quality water ionizers down to a level that people can afford. The lowering of prices really only began with the introduction of natural water ionizers. The natural water ionizers produce free hydrogen just like the electric ionizers, but they do it naturally as opposed to electrocuting the water through the process of electrolysis. I believe the natural water ionizers are in fact superior to electric water ionizers because they add minerals such as Calcium and Magnesium to the water which extend the life of the ionization of the water and are essential to good health.

If you are intrigued by the concept of alkalinity and ionized water but are uncertain about spending thousands of dollars, I recommend checking out the Vitev Flo ($399) which has been around for a couple of years now. Here is a link: www.vitev.com/alkaline-water-ionizers/flo/ I have tested the unit and it works.

The opinions expressed in this article are those of the author. The author is not a medical doctor and his opinions are not intended to be offered as medical advice. It is always advised to seek the advice of  health care professionals for any health issues.

73 Responses to Are Water Ionizers a Gimmick?

  1. Nice article Rob. One question I have is why does the beneficial effects of the ionized water break down within 2-3 days? How does it lose it’s high alkalinity?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    • Hi David:

      Thanks for the comment.

      Taking water in its simplest form, it has a natural neutral balance as the two hydrogen atoms each have a positive charge and the single oxygen atom has a double negative charge. This is why pure water is incredibly stable and can’t be ionized. When we run water over electrically charged plates (electrolysis) in the presence of minerals etc, the water molecules are artificially charged with either a positive or negative charge. The condition is temporary and the molecules will end up going back to a neutral state by combining with other positive or negatively charged moleculse. If you have an ORP meter, which measures the electrical charge of a liquid in milivolts, you can test this easily by taking a measure of the ORP of stong alkaline water in a glass. The very low ORP will disappear in seconds if you shake up the water in the glass. The pH itself will also decline, but not nearly as quickly as the ORP.

      pH is a measure of the availability of Hydrogen ions. Acidic liquids have a higher concentration of Hydrogen ions (H+) while alkaline liquids have a higher concentration of hydroxyl ions (OH-). While the ORP (electrical charge measurement) recombines to neutral very quickly, the pH is much more resilient. I’m not a scientist, so I have to defer to the chemists on this one as to why the pH is more resilient to outside influences. However, based upon my reasearch and testing, the pH also diminishes over a few days.

      I have come across an anomoly in to this in my research, as there is a company called E2 Power that sent me a couple of test bottles of their concentrate. When I tested their concentrate water, the pH has amazing staying power up to a pH of about 9 and the ORP remains at about minus 50 for much longer periods of time than anything else I have tested. The company sells the concentrate which can be mixed with water, and it also sells bottled water. I would much rather pay for a water ionizer that provides a wide range of values and generates micro clustered water for free than pay for the bottled water. However, as a bottled water, I would have to say that the E2 power water is the best I have tested. I believe the MLM company Isogenics is now using the E2 water in one of its products. I tested the Isogenics spray bottle today and it produced pH of about 8.5 and an ORP of minus 50. Not great, but still better than the other botttled water I have tested.

      I don’t believe the E2 water or the Isogenics produce micro clustered water, but I haven’t done enough research on the products. Too many things to research and never enough time. Can anybody out there provide us with any additional information on this product?

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    • I’ve been looking around and noticed that with many counter top RO systems–they also claim to be able to alkalize the water (or at least with an add-on something or other). These systems are closer to the $200 range, even with the alkalizing add-on. I read one site that claimed a pH of 9.3.

      This is obviously the cheapest route that I’ve found thus far for alkaline water (plus, no flouride). But I’m wondering if there is a catch.

      Thoughts?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Hi Christina:

        Personally, I wouldn’t waste my money on a $200 counter top RO system that includes a remin filter.

        First off, I would never put a RO system on the counter because in order to get a system that works properly, it would have to be really big and who wants that on the counter. Second, while you can buy a really low end RO system at Costco for $150, you need to spend $250 to $400 to get a decent system. Thirdly, if you want someone to provide tech support and a help line and be there when you need them, you will probably end up paying $500 to $600. Fourth, and most important in my opinion, if you add a remin filter, the retail cost of a good bioceramic remin filter (the filters that last for 2 years instead of 2-6 weeks and a filter that won’t lead to the formation of kidney stones), the retail price of the remin filter alone is about $250.

        Therefore, the least amount of money that I would spend on a RO system with a good remin filter would be about $500 which gives you an “OK” system and a great remin filter that you will have to buy separately. If you want a high end system and filter with a support network, you will likely have to buy the system and filter separately at a cost of about $750 to $850. if you are willing to spend a little more, Vitev offers a stylish slim line combination Ultra for $995. From there, you can go up to $1,795 for the Aqualiv system or $1,995 for the Pristine Hydro system which essentially do the same thing as the Vitev Ultra. There are more expensive systems out there, but they don’t add anything.

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        • Rob,
          I’ve been reading up on your blog for a few weeks now and am very grateful for what you do! Could you please elaborate on what differentiates a “low end” system from a “decent” system. Also, can you give specific examples of “decent” systems, in your assessment? It looks like there are only a handful of different units out there with one of a dozen or so brand logos stamped on them, from what I can tell. Thanks!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • Hi JR:

            Good question. I believe there are about 125 different suppliers of very similar looking products.

            I would buy an American made unit over a unit made anywhere else. I would buy a WQA Gold Seal unit over one that doesn’t have the WQA approval. I would buy a unit from a place where I can return it and get customer service and tech support. I would buy a unit with 3 pre-filters over 2 pre-filters. I would buy a unit that has a chloramine removal filter as one of the two pre-filters because so many municipalities are gravitating towards chloramine. I would want a good quality 50gpd membrane. I would want a unit with high end fittings and connnectors.

            The problem for any online purchase is that it is very difficult to get any answers to your questions. Most people who man the phones don’t have a clue.

            Better units will have better connectors and fittings.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  2. Hi Rob,
    Thought I’d send you this website to look at. I can’t tell which ionizer they are promoting, but maybe you can. They definitely believe in ionization of water.

    http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter456/index.htm

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  3. Is the $1695 machine available in hongkong? Any distributor I can contact?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Josephine:

      Nice to hear from you again. I don’t think you have commented before, but we have had a number of discussions behind the scenes. I don’t know if the company has a representative in Hong Kong. I will pass your email address along to the company so that they can contact you. Given your interest and knowledge about the water, I’m sure they would like to connect with you.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. Bonsoir Rob,
    first of all, big thanks for your site and the time that you generously spend in answering our legitimate questions. Legitimate, do I say, ’cause between the moment one understands the vital necessity of drinking good water and the time he gets it from his tap, there are thousands of divergent informations and so many different ways and claims to obtain the precious liquid down into your drinking glass!!!
    Ok. By what I have read here (and, of course, before, on dozens of controversial sites) I had came to the conclusion that the Tyent 7070 Turbo and the EOS IonQuench were the two best buys for a ionizer machine. As I was searching an ethical way to buy it (for I must say that, having been introduced to ionized water by an Enagic dealer, I felt uncorrect to just go on a site and buy another machine from anyone who had not participate in any way to my «education»), a friend of mine, to whom I fad talked and who is also interested in having «living» water introduced in her body, just sent me the link for two sites, that are given in a book on health.
    Here are those two sites :
    http://www.eauvivante.excelexgold.com,
    http://www.opal-essence.com.

    PLease, have you ever heard of these?
    Are there any good?
    As these systems represent much cheaper expenses to get supposedly good water… will ionizers machines owners realize in short that they have spent their money for extra-sophisticated technology?
    I must say, to end, that health problems had put me in a financial very challenging situation and, in this regard, my question is crucial. Of course, I will do what is the best for my body, but i would be so sorry to realize that I haven’t chosen the best option.
    Sincerely thanks for your time and expertise,

    Claude Jardin.

    PS. You will have understood, I guess, that my «bonjour» was a way to tell you that my mother tongue and current language is French, so, sorry if certain ways of saying sound funny to you, Eng guys ! Merci !! :-)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Claude:

      Thanks for the nice comments as they are always appreciated.

      I answered your comment a few days ago but somehow, it didn’t show up, so I will try again.

      I assume you have visited the ionizersreveiwed.com website as you have concluded the the Tyent Turbo and IonQuench are the two best buys. I don’t know if you are aware the Tyent paid for the development of the site and pays a substantial amount of money to advertise the site on Google.

      Tyent owns IonQuench despite the fact that they never mention it anywhere. I wrote an article about the review site praising the site for introducing and recommending a new product (IonQuench) before I found out that Tyent owned IonQuench. I wasn’t surprised that Tyent was up to their old tricks, but it still made me angry to be fooled.

      Both the Tyent Turbo and the EOS IonQuench are good machines, but I wish Tyent would just admit that the review site is a paid advertisement. Unfortunately, Tyent wins every time they fool people into believing the review site is actually independent, so I imagine that Tyent will continue to play their games until the tricks are no longer successful.

      The entire water ionizer industry has been built on people testing the Enagic water and buying another product. It is unfortunate that nobody else is building awareness and it is unfortunate that the Enagic machines are so overpriced. I wish Enagic would give their amazing dealers competitive products at a competitive price so that the other companies would actually have to work at building awareness instead of stealing customers from Enagic.

      I checked the two websites, but unfortunately I don’t speak French. I know that Canada is supposed to be a bilingual country, but I’m an old guy and haven’t spoken a word of French since high school. It is a shame that I haven’t kept up it as French is a beautiful language and I used to be very fluent many many many years ago.

      I agree with you that water ionizers are overpriced. I think they should be about $1,600 each now based upon covering the cost of the machine, the overhead and profit that a company needs to cover in order to be financially healthy, and to cover a marketing team. In five years, when the demand for the machines has picked up and they are available at Costco, the machines should be about $1,100 as the marketing arm would no longer be necessary. In the meantime, we all just have to pay up until the industry matures and sorts itself out. I have looked at a few of the alternatives to water ionizers and I haven’t found anything that I would use in place of a water ionizer. That doens’t mean that something else doesn’t exist that could work, it just means I haven’t found out about it yet.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  5. Hi Rob and friends-readers,

    here is some more info about the book from which the two sites (in my previous mail) have been taken. I just got the book tonight from a public library and, of course, it is the French version : La santé consciente. This is the translation of an original English written book «Conscious Health, Choosing natural solutions fot optimum health and lifelong vitality», by Ron Garner, published in 2006 by Beaufort Books.

    There is a little chapter on water, chap 14 (12 pages), intitled «L’eau pour la vie» (The water for Life). As i just got it, I’ve only made a rapid reading, but enough to find that there seems to be there pretty good information about different types of water, including ionized water.

    Just wanted to put this additional info in the game. Think that you, Rob and probably others readers, might find interest in picking them up. I am unfortunately NOT a scientific minded person, but here is some other technology – «Hexaédron 999», created here in Québec – that seems to be really efficient. Price is not an argument that would give advantage to this specific tech, as it is in the same range than ionizers.

    to be followed…

    Thanks,
    Claude.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Claude:

      Thanks for the update

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  6. Thank you for your referral. We are contacting. I will inform my friend and see if he is interested.
    Why people think that Kangen is better? First, it is more expensive. People tend to think that expensive means better. Second, the reps do very impressive and convincing demo. I don’t know whether other brands can do the same demo like tea bag, sesame oil, iodine test etc. Can they do the same? Also, the reps will wisely compare the plate size and material to justify the price (this is also very convincing). So Kangen becomes the market standard. Even when my friend is looking for a more affordable ionizer, the first thing he asked is “is it as good as Kangen” can it perform the same?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Josephine:

      Good luck with your endeavors in Hong Kong.

      Kangen. It seems like almost every inquiry has to do with Kangen. There is a good reason for that I suppose as Kangen dealers are the only ones spreading the word. You are absolutely correct that the Kangen reps put on great demonstrations and I appreciate every one of them….at least the ones that stick to the facts about water an ionization as opposed to spreading wrongful information.

      The other brands don’t do much of anything other than sell units to people that have been educated by Kangen reps but don’t want to pay $4,000 for a Kangen. Anyone can do the same tests with any of the brands and produce the same results. The problem is that the industry is so preoccupied with making as much money as fast as possible instead of educating people.

      I expect that Kangen’s days are numbered. While the Kangen reps are awesome, they need better products to sell at lower prices. I believe it is a tremendous waste of human passion and talent to saddle the Kangen reps with an overpriced, outdated machine. C’mon Kangen….wake up! Help your dealers help you. Provide them with new products at competitive prices and watch them go.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  7. What about Bawell ionizer. They are very affordable. Are they good?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Joanna:

      I don’t know much about Bawell. I took a look at their site. I like the low prices as they are selling the two units that I looked at for $499 and $799. They are definitely entry level units and they are made in China. I don’t trust the safety and quality control of Chinese products at this time, so I wouldn’t recommend one of their units. I expect that the Chinese will eventually clean up their problems with safety and quality control issues, but I know I wouldn’t put one in my home at this time. I also think that the price of the Bawell units are too low based upon what I know it costs to build a good water ionizer. While all the companies out there are charging too much, the price of the Bawell tells me to look elsewhere.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  8. 2nd trial. I had just completed my mail when, God knows on what button I have clicked!, the entire msg disappeared! grrrrrr…

    ok.
    this follows your answers dated Aug 19.

    You are right, I had picked up my info from ionizersreviewed.com site. Great thanks for sharing so openly your knowledge and make us aware of unfair use of advertising and marketing techniques. Unfortunately, it does not tell very good story about integrity’s company… doing whatever is good for their sales instead of giving true, honest and really informative info. In short term, this may be paying but the long term might not reward as well… anyway. It only reminds me how vigilent one must be when surfing on the net.

    PLease allow me to come back with my request for your opinion on the http://www.eauvivante.excelexgold.com/indexeng.html site. Here it is in Eng. There was only to click on the «ENGLISH» button on the home page.
    Ron Garner has won the Nautilus Award 2007 for his book «Conscious Health» (from which this site is linked); he must be somehow credible. And, as he had evaluated that the Hexahedron999 restructuring system was superior to the ionizers technic, I am kind of stand by in my decision to buy. As well as the 5 persons that await for my oipnion/decision… as it seems that I am the one who takes time for researching and reading and so on… All these close persons to me (most of my family) are caring and longing for living water!

    If I was to choose between only ionizers, I was very inclined to buy the EOS machine. BTW thanks for your article « An invitation to all Enagic dealers » inviting them to maybe choose a better «chief»… I would personnaly feel very bad to purchase from a «stranger» when I had been introduced to this water by an Enagic dealer; I had myself invited my dealer to become representative of another brand, so that I can thank and encourage him…
    But this is not the entire point, the balance being now -for me – between ionizer and hexahedron999 system…
    If you were to take time to read their instructive site and share your impression, that would probably help me in my decision… that I hope to be soon.

    Thanks, Rob.

    Au plaisir de te lire,
    Claude.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Claude:

      You are correct that the current review sites are built to convince viewers to purchase a specific brand. While the sites appear to provide a level of comfort to the potential consumer in terms of choosing the “right” machine, they are totally biased and are therefore useless in my opinion. I wish the sites would produce information that is useful to the public instead of pushing sets of numbers that are easily manipulated.

      Thanks for sending an English version of the site. Here are my comments:

      * The site emphasises the need for a pre-filtration system, which I agree with completely. However, the prices they charge are far too high and you can do much better if you shop around. The high prices for the filters provides a warning to me that the price of the Hexahedron 999 is probably grossly over priced as well

      * The site doesn’t give me any idea of the track record of the product or how it works. I don’t want to be negative about anything unless I have tested it myself, but I just don’t feel qualified to give an opinion

      * I understand the concept of creating hexagonal water, but I don’t get how the advertised system does this, and I don’t see how it affects alkalinity or ORP.

      * The system might provide benefit, but I just don’t get it. If and when the site provides studies and testimonials about human consumption, I would be more inclined to take a more serious look at the system.

      I imagine you were expecting a more positive response from me. I just can’t do that unless I feel comfortable. Water ionizers have been around for 30 years providing benefits to millions of humans.

      I agree with your assessment of the EOS as a machine that provides good value. I expect that other companies will have to follow the policy of lower prices for high quality machines in the future if they want to compete. It has already started. I have been reading that Tyent USA has bought out the defunct KYK line that used to be made by EOS, and is bringing it back at $1,795. I would want to wait to see who is actually manufacturing the unit and see it tested before buying it, but at least the price is heading in the right direction.

      I expect that the price of the water ionizers is going to be coming down fast in the near future. The water ionizers all work and the best machines are going to have to start competing on price instead of bells and whistles. There is lots of room for prices to drop while still allowing for decent profits. At some point in time, the machines will be made available directly to the public from the manufacturer, or offered at places like Walmart or Costco.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • Dear Rob:

        Hi. It seems that your response to the Hexahedron 999 is similar to the response of critics to Kangen water. You don’t know how it works, so you are doubtful of it until you get credible research.

        I was informed of the Hexahedron 999 by a friend back in 2007. I ordered a unit, then ordered many more and sold them to customers.

        Here are some of the results we have seen in controlled studies.

        We did a study on 8 chicken houses in Tennessee, home of 1/4 million chickens. We put the Hexahedron 999 mini on all 8 of the houses. We specifically monitored mortality rates. The average mortality rate per house had a track record of being around 4,000 birds per house. After we put the Hexahedron 999 mini units on the 8 houses, mortality rates dropped by 50%, to an average of 2,000 birds per house per grow out.

        We did a test in Georgia on strawberries, where we used the Hexahedron 999 water to water half of the strawberries, and regular well water to water the other half. At the end of the trial period we compared the weight of harvested berries between the test and control groups. The amount of berries grown with the Hexahedron 999 water increases by 10% over the control. When we brixed the berries, the brix value of the berries watered with the Hexahedron 999 water was 25% higher than the control.

        We did a test on corn silage. We put 4 hexahedron mini units out 2/3rds the way out on a center pivot irrigation system in Florida. At harvest, we compared the brix of both the kernals of corn and the leaves of the plant. The leaves of the corn just beyond the hexahedron 999 watering swath measured a brix of 4, while inside the swath measured a brix of 5, a 25% increase. The brix of the kernals increased by 25% as well, increasing from 8 to 10.

        I have a Hexahedron 999 mini under my kitchen sink, and one for my garden.

        You can go to one of my websites and read the incredible results I got when I put the Hexahedron 999 on my pool. http://www.ag-usa.net/pool.htm

        Blessings.
        Paul

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Hi Paul:

          Thanks for you input on the work that that the company that you represent has done in the agricultural industry. Did the company actually conduct scietific studies, or is the information anecdotal? I don’t discount anecdotal studies because scientific studies can be very expensive and beyond the financial reach of many companies.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  9. Bonjour Rob,

    merci pour votre réponse / thanks for your quick answer.
    (I have to use this «comment form» as the «reply» button does not function from my compu.)

    THANKS for having looked at the site. Your evaluation gives me satisfaction, as I have also this same feeling of uncompleteness when visiting even the whole site.
    I had written to this lady yesterday for more info and also asking her if she/they were aware of the ionizers systems and what comparison they could sustain. I had no answer yet, but if there were to be interesting new info about it, I will communicate it here.

    Somehow, at this point, the balance comes back on the ionizers side, as -as you wrote – the benefits and experience are known for decades. I am not a journalist neither an investigator and won’t spend hours and days in pursuying more info about their system; it is their way-of-doing-business that is shown there, in NOT giving sufficient info about how the «machine» works neither what results it gives on humans. «On juge l’arbre à ses fruits» do we say in French, which means we can state on the value of the tree by the fruits it gives…

    So, I am back into the fabulous world of ionizers, ta-dam!
    If EOS seems to be a good choice (as you confirm), I also understand that for about the same $, there might be wiseness in maybe awaiting a bit to see what Tyent CANADA would do with the defunct KYK line brought back in the US at 1,795$. Do you think that is it useful to await a bit; is «coming back to school and work» time a good time to have news products released or new prices and marketing plans to come out?

    We, here, are 5 or 6 persons longing for drinking and benefiting of this living water. Could I take advantage of the fact that I am the one who mainly makes research and talks of it to others, to get some financial benefit of this coming batch of purchases? Any suggestion?

    Thanks again for your time and devotion to real and natural health, Claude J.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Claude:

      I’m only guessing, but I can’t help but think that a lawsuite will be created by EOS against KYK because the KYK machine was created by EOS. The fact that KYK has changed a couple of parts doesn’t excuse it from charges or pirating the patents on the machine. I suspect that KYK will try to circumvent their responsibility by saying the new machine is made in China, where EOS has no jurisdiction.

      If I had a choice, I would buy an EOS for $1,695 over a KYK for $1,795. or even $1,595. The EOS company has been manufacturing machines for 6 years and has a stellar reputation. When KYK started putting unauthorized parts into their machine to save money, their machines ended up being a disaster. As a result, KYK lost its distributors in the USA, Canada, and even in Korea, where the machines were made. I don’t have alot of confidence in the ability of KYK to suddenly produce a high quality machine. The fact that the KYK machines are going to be made in China causes me greater concern as I wouldn’t buy a health product made in China. The safety issue with Chinese products may change someday, but for now, I think it is appropriate to be cautious.

      In additon to the quality and value issues, it really bugs me that Tyent intentionally killed off KYK in America and now that they are bringing KYK back as their own product and claiming how great it is.

      No matter which brand you choose, or which company you go with, I’m sure that you can negotiate a good deal based upon a volume purchase of 5 or 6 machines. Do your homework and then go with your intuition.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  10. What about the ASEA product? Is it just an ionized water?

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    • Hi Bennie:

      I have heard about ASEA, but I really don’t know anything about the Asea product other than what I read online. I believe that Dr. Dave Carpenter, the ND who is the author of “Change Your Water, Change Your Life” which was a strong promotional tool for Enagic has become involved with Asea.

      Asea claims to be a source of Redox signalling molecules, which “turns on” the effectiveness of antioxidants. Perhaps our readers can help us out here.

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  11. Thanks so much for your thorough analysis of the water ionizers. I read your opinion on the Hexahedron 999 and was wondering if your opinion has changed, if you’ve had the opportunity to review it, etc.? My nutritionist sells it and swears by it for gardening, drinking, etc. But, before I spend $495 for an attachment for my garden hose, I wanted to research it a bit more. But, there aren’t many sites I trust since most appear to be “reviews” posted by resellers of the product.

    Thanks!

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  12. Oh My Gosh…..I found your insightful article. I would think you are talking about me with knowing the ionized water is good, but with the cost of the machines, the mud slinging between the companies and the chemist vs consumers, well, I just continue walking away from my computer still not buying one. Why is Kangen the ONLY one offering water to try? I loved it and so glad I had the chance to try it, but will not buy due to price. So, I see there are others out there, but none to personally try. I see the prices coming down a “tad”. My son wants one for college….omg….we are looking to buy one for the home, but for college too? It’s almost been a year since I’ve seen a comment on your site. What machines, now being May 2012, are you seeing that we should “consider” for home AND college? Again, your article was sooooooo on the money.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Cely:

      Thanks for the nice comments

      You really can’t go wrong with an electric water ionizer as they all work. After saying that, I actually prefer the natural water ionizers because they produce ionized water naturally and because they are very affordable.

      I don’t like making public recommendations because the dealers for the companies that I don’t recommend get all pissy and claim that I work for the company. Here is what I can tell you. My two sons both use the Hyensung E&E Hybrid at college. The machine is affordable (retails at $895 but is available at $595 at http://www.waterhealthcare.ca) and ionizes as well as any of the higher priced machines. The best part is that you can hook it up to the tap if you want to, but my kids use it like a batch ionizer. That means they can pour water into the holding container on the top from a pitcher instead of hooking the unit up to a tap. Therefore, they don’t have to tie up the tap that is used by other students.

      For your own use at home, I think the best value these days remains the EOS Genesis Platinum (retails at $1,695 but is available at http://www.waterhealthcare.ca for $949). I have used an EOS machine in my lab for years and it performs as well or better than all the other machines. If you have soft water where you live, the EOS is definitely superior to other machines because of all the bioceramics they have in their filters.

      If you want really clean water as well as ionized water, there is a new product coming out shortly that is amazing. It sells for $795 and I think will change the industry. I have tested the unit as part of a market research group and it performs well everywhere. The company has not announced the unit yet but when they do, I will write an article about it.

      Enagic/Kangen is the only company that offers “free” water because they have hundreds of thousands of soldiers “out there” who are more than happy to provide samples. The other companies simply don’t have a network that is nearly as far reaching. The commissions are so high for Enagic’s machines that it behooves the soldiers to give water away to anybody that asks.

      There are two ways of looking at the “free water” give away. The cynical view is that Enagic dealers have to give the water away to get people “hooked” and then make them feel obligated to purchase. I prefer the view that Enagic dealers are providing a wonderful service to the public.

      The only “sticky” part is that once the potential consumer is convinced that the water is beneficial (which is inevitable), the consumer feels a great deal of pressure to buy from the Enagic dealer that has given them the “free” water. This creates a dilemma for the consumer because they want to be loyal to the dealer, who of course has been their “friend” throughout the process, but the Enagic prices are ridiculouly high in comparison to other products that work just as well.

      My response to the dilemma is that it is up to the consumer to do the right thing for themselves and their family. Buy the machine that best suits your needs and budget. If you choose a machine other than the Enagic, be honest with the Enagic dealer about the pricing issue. There is no shame in Make sure you let them know how much you appreciate the fact that they have gone out of their way to educate you and that you would be happy to refer them to others.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  13. Bawell sells an ionizer for $599 isit any good? or should I get the Jupiter Venus for $1195. Bawell says theirs is cheaper because it doesn’t have electronic displays and this makes it more reliable. thanks Dom

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  14. Rob, I would like to introduce you to a natural way of making alkaline water. I recently joined a company called Dream Tree Family Water and I have been so impressed how they naturally make alkaline water using a ceramic conversion system. It is totally awesome. They have incredible products and testamonies. Please review my website listed above. It will give you some great information; and talk about affordable. This is very affordable system and products. I recently installed a ROCCS- Reverse Osmosis Conversion Ceramic System in my home so that I can have alkaline water in my kitchen for all cooking and drinking purposes. I ask you to please go to the website and check it out. We want to reach out to as many people as possible. What an awesome way to get the word out so that everyone can benefit. I hope to hear from you soon.

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    • Hi Geraldine:

      I like the sound of it. I will check it out and report back

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  15. If money was of no object, which ionizer do you honestly think provides the best quality water in terms of antidioxidants, pH, cleanliness, healthfulness, and versatility (beauty water, etc.)?

    I think I would like to get one, but I feel so skeptical.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Hi Christina:

      The best drinking water is both clean and healthy (capable of producing stable, long lasting ionization).

      Electric water ionizers fail miserably in terms of the “clean” half of the equation. They do produce short term ionization but for the most part they typically fail in regards to stable ionization unless the source water is full of alkali metals such as magnesium, calcium, sodium, and potassium.

      Non-electric or natural water ionizers are better than the electric machines when it comes to cleaning, but they are no match for reverse osmosis systems. They naturally produce stable and long lasting ionization which makes them superior to electric water ioinizers in terms of ionization in my opinion.

      I don’t really understand the theory of “if price was not an issue” because price is always an issue. I think what you are really asking me is which machine would I choose to receive if somebody was giving me a free machine. If I had to pick one machine, I have a clear favorite and it is the Vitev ULTRA. It is a unit that combines a top quality American made Reverse Osmosis system with a state of the art Remineralization filter. The unit sells for $995 and you can see it online at http://www.vitev.com.

      I don’t want to piss off the guys at Vitev again for supporting their products, but you asked me which machine I think produces the best drinking water. The Vitev guys asked me to stop writing about their products a month or two ago because they are still working on their “story” and making final tweaks to their packaging. They are also distancing themselves from the ugliness of the ionizer industry (which I write about) as they don’t want to be associated with all the “nonsense” that you see online. Every time I wrote about them, they got a bunch of calls and orders which they were really not ready to handle. It seems crazy to me that a company doesn’t want free promotion, but I assume they know what they are doing. Imo, they are way out in front of everybody in the industry in regards to products, pricing, and the “message”, so I have to believe their request for me to continue to be patient is the right thing to do.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  16. Why not the FLO? Why is the Ultra better?

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    • Hi Christina:

      My testing shows that the FLO is a great product but it is not nearly as thorough at cleaning the water as an ULTRA. The FLO, and any other non RO system for that matter, will not remove bacteria and cysts if they somehow manage to get into the water supply. The FLO does remove chloramines but at this point in time, I don’t see anything on the Vitev site that tells me that the FLO removes fluoride. There are activated alumina pre-filters on the market that claim to remove 75% of the fluoride from the source water.

      I think the FLO is a great product for people that have good quality source water (no bacteria and no fluorides), or for people who live in apartments where they are not allowed to drill a hole in the counter. I’m fortunate in the fact that I live in a city with really safe drinking water so I use a FLO in my new home. However, I use the ULTRA at my cottage where I can’t rely upon the safety of the source water. I know budget is an issue for a lot of people, but you have to make sure your drinking water is safe or else your health can be at risk.

      I see so many companies claiming to remove bacteria or claim their filters remove anything larger than 0.1 or even 0.01 microns, which may lead consumers to believe that their filters are safe when it comes to removing bacteria. I can point fingers at a lot of companies that do this and prove that they are misleading the public but I’m tired of being a watchdog.

      Here is simple tip for helping you decide if a machine will actually remove bacteria. If a unit doesn’t have a storage tank, it doesn’t remove bacteria. The reason for this assumption is that you need a membrane with extremely small pores to remove bacteria sized particles. The size of the pores in a membrane that removes bacteria typically restrict the production of drinking water to 2 gallons per hour. That means it takes 30 minutes to produce a gallon or approximately 2 ounces per minute. If a filtration system doesn’t have a storage tank, then it doesn’t adequately filter unsafe water.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Hi Rob,

        first of all, thanks for all the great information you posted here!! One of the view web sources where I actually feel that the author is not biased. I noticed that in more recent posts you are also advocating the non-electrical or natural water ionizers aside from the electrical versions. I am still not 100% certain who to believe concerning ways ionized water can be produced (only through electrolysis or also through the chemical process the company vitev is explaining very visual in their FAQ section).
        I would definitely prefer a non-electrical device, especially if the filtering is as effective as you say but also, well because they don’t consume power. A long time ago, while looking into Dr. Masaru Emoto’s work, I came across Clayton Nolte’s Structured Water devices: http://www.naturalactionwater.com/
        Would be great to get your take on his solution.

        Also, in a May 4 2012 post you mention that “….there is a new product comingout shortly that is amazing. It sells for $795 and I think will change the industry. I have tested the unit as part of a market research group and it performs well everywhere. The company has not announced the unit yet but when they do, I will write an article about it.” Do you have any details on that? Is it comparable to the vitev products?

        Thanks,
        Lars

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        • Hi Lars:

          Thanks for commenting. It takes time and effort to do so. Most people can’t be bothered but I’m grateful for the thousand or so that have taken the time because comments generate research ideas for me and provide information that many others appreciate.

          People that sell water ionizers say a lot of stupid things in an effort to convince the public to buy their machines. The process of ionizing water is really simple and can be achieved in a number of ways including both electrolysis and naturally. The net effect is the same.

          Electric water ionizers act to concentrate the alkali metals found in the source water at the anode of an ionizing chamber and send that water out the drinking line. When the water molecules interact with the alkali metals, they ionize the water because the oxygen component of the water molecule has a stronger attraction to the alkali metal than it does to one of the two hydrogen atoms. The “free” hydrogen is the key to the health aspects of a water ionizer. The natural water ionizers simply introduce alkali metals into the water during the filtration process. The bottom line is that natural ionizers typically produce more stable and long lasting ionization due to the presence of the alkali metals. The ability of an electric water ionizer to produce stable and long lasting ionization is solely dependent upon the presence of alkali metals in the water.

          Once I had conducted extensive testing on natural water ionizers and found them to be better than electric water ionizers at producing long lasting ionization in real life situations, I was determined to find out why. I turned my attention to the work of Dr. Hidemitsu Hayashi, who I believe is the leading authority in the world on the subject. He offers a simple explanation (at least it became simple after I reviewed it many times until I “got it”) of what happens when water interacts with alkali metals and other “impurities” in the water.

          I took a look at the website that you posted. The site is based upon the Vortex theory. I’m not a fan of the explanations on the site as they appear to be “clips” from other sites that offer more extensive explanations. I remain skeptical of the relevance of Vortex theory as I have never seen any evidence that supports it. However I do keep an open mind primarily out of respect for a colleague of mine in Germany who has done a lot more research on the subject and maintains that the Vortex theory might help to a limited extent. The same colleague in Germany has become a big fan of natural ionization as a result of his studies as well.

          The product that I mentioned is from the same Vitev company. They ended up pricing the product at $995 because they added some really cool stuff. I’m a “nuts and bolts” guy who would rather pay less than more as long as I get the “guts”. After saying that, I have to admit that the things they added are pretty innovative and further separate them from anything else that is out there. .

          I wrote an article about the product that you mentioned. The company politely (unlike the rude yapper from the legal department at Enagic) asked me to remove the article…..yup….you read that correctly….weird! They were finalizing all the minute details of packaging etc at the time (which I’m now told are complete) and working on the final details of their “message”. They want to remove themselves from the ugly world of water ionizers and didn’t want me confusing people with the “better than other water ionizers” message as that is what the water ionizer industry is all about. They appreciated the orders that the stories created, but they didn’t want to have items go out that were not to their exact specification and they weren’t geared up to handle the volume. I have to admit that I was surprised at their request, but I assume they know what they are doing.

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          • Thank you for quick answer Rob….wow, only 4 hours later….you are really maintaining your blog very well!!!!

            And thank you for explaining the differences between the electrical and natural way of producing ionized water. I will also look into Dr. Hayashi’s work. As for the vortex device I agree, that the website and information provided could be improved. I just read through his FAQ section and I am still looking for prove of his statements that contaminants in the structured water are just passed through the body without doing any harm. This effect is being repeatedly stated over and over again but people are left with either believing it or not. I do or better I want to believe the positive effects on the memory or energy of the water.

            Now concerning vitev I assume you meant the $995 product as I couldn’t find one for $99 :-)
            I looked at it, saw the video and see the benefits of using RO in a multi-filter setup for almost perfect filtration. Do you know how much waste water this system creates (in comparison to an electric ionizer) and what is in it? I know I am looking for the perfect solution, that may not yet exist. Ideally one that provides me with the optimum quality of water but also in a way that the impact on the environment (power consumption, water waste and pollution) is minimized and for a price that is reasonable. More food for thought….
            For my own choice I will go ahead and do a water test to figure out if the FLO would be a sufficient product for me. You stated above that FLO doesn’t tackle Fluoride. But the alkastream system used to do that as far as I know. And since alkastream is now vitev I would assume they offer similar capabilities in their revamped product line?

            Take care and again thanks for the time to respond!
            Lars

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • Hi Lars:

            I think the four hour response time has more to do with luck rather than diligence. The blog is my hobby and I get to it when I can.

            \thanks for pointing out my typo on the price of the Ultra…I have corrected it.

            There is almost zero original thinking or research about ionized water machines available on websites that sell the machines. Everybody just cuts and pastes the same old stuff. People quote from books that are completely out of date and the public naturally believes it because they see it over and over again. The vortex theory is a perfect example as the original work was done about 80 years I challenged the RO industry for four years and they ignored me or called me an idiot. They didn’t do anything until I bombarded them with scientific studies published on http://www.pubmed.com which is the US government health site.

            It seems that water is the most simple and yet most complex molecule in the world. I have talked to researchers that have studied water for a generation or more and they all say that they don’t even begin to understand water. I’m not as smart as those people and I don’t have government or scholastic or public funding, so I’m left to researching the research and writing about it on my blog. When websites talk about the memory of water, I have to wonder what they are basing their statements on. Can they prove it? Did they do the research? Did they read about it in a book or a study as what was the basis for the comments in the book or study?

            The Vortex theory was forwarded by Viktor Shauberger, a very creative and talented inventor from the 1920s to 1950s. If you read about Shauberger, you will find that he was never able to prove his theories despite his attempts in both Europe and America. That doesn’t make his theories wrong, but then again, nobody has really done anything since to prove his theories.

            My frustration comes from the fact that people use Schauberger’s unproven theory to sell stuff that they can’t prove and don’t have a clue how or why it should work. The notion that water picks up energy as it travels down a mountain stream (which is related to a water molecule interacting with alkali metals which can create the formation of free hydrogen, or by the emancipation of a hydrogen atom from a water molecule due to a collision) intuitively might make sense. How that relates to spinning water around in a container, or creating fins in a filter which causes water to swirl slightly as it passes through a filter is a stretch…a big stretch for me. As far as water memory goes, I don’t think there is a human being qualified to speak on the issue other than suggesting theories.

            When I comment about water, I do so with the proviso that my comments are based upon my opinion. My opinions are formed by what I have read (not from water ionizers companies trying to sell me something), what I have tested, and what intuitively makes sense to me. I respect people like Dr. Hayashi because he publishes his work and his findings in a scientific manner. While I find it difficult to follow everything at first, I plug along and ask questions until it makes sense to me.

            Ok…I have my rant out of the way…now on to your questions:

            The RO component of the Vitev Ultra wastes 75% of the source water in the filtration process. The tiny size of the pores in the membrane remove almost all impurities (TDS – total dissolved solids) from the water. Electric water ionizers waste about 40% and they remove very little. The electric part of the ionizer concentrates anions (chlorides, fluorides, sulphates etc) at the cathode which are then in turn send down the drain with the waste water. Some of the filters used by electric water ionizer companies to provide some filtration but for the most part, they make unsubstantiated claims. For example, Jupiter/IonWays/AlkaVia claims that their Biostone filters will filter down to 0.1 mircrons….the claim is not true. I’m not trying to pick on “whatever they call themselves these days” but someone that has done some research may believe that the Biostone filter will safely remove all cysts and bacteria because of the claim and it is not true.

            The fluoride removing claims of the Alkastream were false if you ran the filter for more than 20-50 liters depending upon the level of fluoride in the water. I informed that owner of Alkastream in Australia of this but he never changed the information on his website. The fact that Alkastream never corrected the misconception about fluoride removal was one of many factors that lead the guys in America to go in a new direction and create their Vitev products. I think it would be folly to assume that anything about the Alkastream has been carried forward to Vitev. They did sell the Alkastream in America, but the new Vitev products are far superior and the company philosophy is completely different. The Vitev Flo does not claim to remove fluoride and I appreciate their honesty.

            If a filter claims to remove fluoride, it better be using it with a RO system, or else they need to publish the volume and capacity of the media included to remove fluoride. Getting rid of fluoride is best left to a distillation or RO system. Claims of 75% removal rate of fluoride from source water are made by the producers of the activated alumina media. I assume they are true, but there is definitely a lack of information available about the amount of time that the fluoride needs to be exposed to the media.

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  17. Thanks again Rob!
    I agree and hope that one day we will fully understand and appreciate the capabilities of water but at the moment it seems like a lot of trying and guessing.
    As for the RO component of the Ultra and RO in general, I like the efficiency in terms of providing clean water but I have now a hard time accepting the fact that I am waisting 75% of the source water. This is very contradictory to a sustainable lifestyle. It amazes me how much effort I have spent already on trying to find the ideal solution but the minute I think I have it, the next caveat comes around the corner. The same goes for the electric ionizers. Waisting 40% of the source water…..I can’t live with that. Water is too precious for me. So I hope now that my outstanding water test will return acceptable results and that something like the FLO will be a good compromise with maybe not perfect filtering but at least no waste in water. I am also still eyeing my table top distiller, wondering if a combination with a natural ionizer is feasible and practical (of course this adds the electricity component again). Any thoughts or experience with that?
    Maybe the whole topic of water waste versus producing healthy water is worth another article on your blog? :-)

    Anyway, thank you so much for your insight and guidance.

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    • Hi Lars:

      I guess everything is relative to one’s point of view. When I think about home drinking systems, I think about how much better they are at conserving resources than bottled water. I think about how so many of us in North America use lawn sprinkler systems and wash our cars. How much water is used to flush out water softeners at night? Then I think about how many glasses of water it takes to wash a glass of water at a restaurant. The list seems endless

      Then I think about what the human race is doing to our oceans. How much longer will our oceans be able to sustain life at all given how we poison them every day?

      Humans have taken water for granted since man inhabited the earth. It is only when water is scarce or dangerous to drink that man takes notice. The clock is ticking.

      Every person has to make their own decisions based upon what the feel is important.

      As far as insight and guidance….I dunno…I read, I test, I analyse….and then I guess like the rest of us…most of this stuff is intuitive if one takes the time to think about it. Creating healthy water by natural means seems to make more sense than electrocuting water….adding the right amount of alkali minerals seems to make more sense than hoping the source water has the right “components” makes more sense….drinking clean water seems to make more sense. Keeping the wife happy seems to make the most sense of all.

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      • Hi Rob,

        yes, you are right, it’s all about perspective. But I also believe that every single person’s contribution to a change in behaviour is having a bigger effect than we think. I do see the devastating impact our society has on our environment and hope that we reach a tipping point once a critical mass in environmentally conscious people has been reached. Hope that is not just wishful thinking but I agree with you, the big unknown is how long our nature systems can sustain the human masses’ disconnected lifestyle.
        For now, off to more drinking water research…and making the significant other happy :-)

        Take care,
        Lars

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  18. do you recommend the flo system by vitev found at vitev.com?

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    • Hi Arthur:

      I recommend almost all of the brands of water ionizers because they all work.

      Currently I’m using a Flo under counter unit in my kitchen at home. I’m very pleased with the unit’s performance and ease of use.

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      • Hi guys,

        I think Rob meant the ULTRA from vitev? Over the last couple of days I had several email exchanges with vitev on their products, since I wanted to know the degree of water waste of the RO-based ULTRA and was wondering if they had recommendations on pre-filters for the FLO to optimize the filtration (e.g. to cover fluoride). They confirmed that with the ULTRA 2 gallons go out the drain for every gallon you drink, which is in line with other RO systems. As for pre-filters they are currently testing a fluoride filter but said that you could combine the FLO with any pre-filter you need or want for the type of source water you have. (Omnipure is one provider). If you are ok with the waste of the RO process and maybe have already a table-top RO system (e.g. http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-counter-detail.htm) you could use vitev’s REMIN cartridge with it. My family in Germany is using the Airasun 1000 (http://www.airasun.de/) which is similar to the FLO (I think) and like it.

        Lars

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  19. Sorry, I missed the UNDR product which, I think, Rob was referring to (not the ULTRA).

    Lars

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  20. Hi Rob

    Your blog has been a great tool in helping me through the mess that is choosing an ioniser. However, we are in Auckland, New Zealand so the range here is not as great as that overseas. After all the reading I did for several hours last night, I would like to ask your advice before I dive in and spend a bucket load of $NZ on one. My choice would be the Tyent 9000T due to the tap usability and the generally overall good feedback about Tyent ionisers. The cost is great at $3000 (that’s with 1k off as it’s on sale). Is this a good or right choice? We have a highly allergic daughter and think this may just help on her food eczema path and help with her overall health for skin and liver function. Is there another cheaper or better product you would recommend – the choices here in NZ are the EOS platinum or revelation (actually not cheaper), Homay Chi, KYK Genesis, Chanson Miracle Max, Violet, VS-70 (tap). The Delphi (with tap) and Alphion, last the Kangen 7. I read somewhere that Jupiter and Life units were not great, but I liked the ease of use of the Venus Ionising System (easy picture buttons). I read the Vitev UNDR is only US$499! – could that do all the alkalising and other acidity stuff for my daughters skin? We could ask a friend to ship us one. Grateful of any time and advice you could give – I am so nervous of getting it wrong when thousands of dollars is at stake. Regards, Jennifer

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    • Hi Jennifer:

      I love Auckland. What a beautiful city where the beach is easily accessable to everyone and an awesome “tree hugging” forest just minutes away. I don’t get everyone’s preoccupation with the All Blacks, but I also don’t understand why Americans spend Sundays glued to their televlisions watching American football either.

      It sounds like you are entering the water ionizer “abyss” where there seems to be an obvious destination but too many road maps on how to get there. As a lover of nature, I’m predisposed to the natural water ionizers (such as Vitev). When it comes to water and just about everything else, Mother Nature seemed to have it right before humans came along.
      However, I can’t complain about electric water ionizers as they also work, but you need to drink the water right away and they typically don’t filter the water as well as the natural water ionizers (Chanson for example has a really simple filter that only takes our chlorine).

      If you want acidic water for skin cleansing, I would stick with an electric water ionizer. I still think the EOS Genesis Platinum is the best machine for the money on the market. Check out http://www.waterhealthcare.ca as they offer the machine for Canadian $949 to cancer patients (about NZD$1,200 with the exchange). I think the company charges $100 more for people who don’t have cancer. Either way, the total will be a lot less than you are finding in NZ.

      The best news in all of this is that you really can’t make a bad decision. It basically gets down to getting the best value on a product that suites your needs.

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  21. “The Enagic MLM company charges nearly $4000 for its machine. Companies like Jupiter, Life Ionizers, and Tyent charge between $2,500 and $3,000 for their top end machines and about $2,000 for their lower priced products. ”
    It is interesting that you would only mention the highest cost Enagic ionizer as though that’s the only one they offer, and yet you mention the others have a price of about “$2,000 for their lower priced products.”
    Did you forget about the $1280 Enagic SunUS and the $2380 Jr II, both of which have the plate technology to last 15-20 years based on 39 years of history, as compared to the others which have a record of deteriorating quite rapidly after six months?
    If you are so interested in “low price at any cost” (think about that one), why don’t you promote the low price models which have a 38 year proven pedigree of durability of its patented process double dipped plates? $2,000 is way too expensive for a product which is not going to provide good service for many, many years.

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    • Hi John:

      You bring up a legitimate point about me not mentioning the highest priced products of competitive companies. The reason that I quoted $2000 for competitive products is that if you do your homework, you can typically buy the highest priced products in the $2,000 range regardless of what the suggested retail price is. I have heard lots of stories where the parent companies undercut their own dealers to make a sale. Life and Tyent are famous for this disgraceful behavior. One of the best things about Enagic is that they never screw their dealers.

      I didn’t forget Enagic’s lower priced products, but lets face it, the Enagic dealers make such a huge deal of the SD501 that potential customers are left feeling that they have had to “settle” if they purchase any other Enagic machine. I believe the primary reason that Enagic brought back the Sunus (after saying only weeks before that the machine was not up to Enagic standards) was to appease the outcry from prospective Enagic dealers who wouldn’t or couldn’t pay $4,000 to be eligible to partake in Enagic’s “business opportunity”.

      Why are you referring to 39 years of experience? Enagic started selling the SD501 in 2004. Enagic bought the rights in 2001 to sell Toyo’s Pureport II and it took Enagic 2 1/2 years to build their marketing program before they began selling. I think you will be dismayed to learn that Bob McCaulay used to sell the Pureport II in America in the 1990′s for about $900 before Enagic took over. MLM systems come at a very high price to consumers.

      I encourage all Enagic dealers to keep up the good work in regards to spreading the word about the benefits of the water. If someone is willing to pay $4,000 for a machine to cover the cost of so many levels of payout, well, good for them. At least they are drinking the water. My pet peeve is that Enagic dealers infer that their products are superior or that other much lower priced products are inferior because it simply isn’t true. While Enagic products may (or may not) last longer, the Enagic products certainly don’t produce more healthy water. When you take into consideration that many competitors offer a lifetime warranty, the air just comes out of the Enagic argument of superiority.

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  22. Hi Rob

    Excellent blog, I am really glad I came across it.
    I’ve been doing research on water ionisers to see which one I should go for. A really tricky exercise and then I came across Atmos H2O (http://www.atmosh2o.com/) which seems to turn air into water and it claims to be really clean.
    I am wondering if you have any thoughts on these machines and whether I would be better off with an ioniser or an air to water generator? What I really want is to stop buying drinking water in plastic bottles and have a healthy & ethical source of drinking water.

    Many thanks

    Fan
    Ps I live in the UK

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    • Hi Fan:

      Geez…for a moment I thought “a fan”….seems that vanity has no end :)

      The AtmosH2O is obviously condensing air into water (I haven’t had time to to check it out yet). If the machine collects impurities via filtration during the condensation process, I assume the water would be clean.

      The best drinking water is clean and healthy (energized). The AtmosH2O would not be producing energized water and it would be devoid of Calcium and Magnesium which means it would not be particularly healthy for the human body. Clean is not the same as healthy.

      Check out the natural water ionizers if you want clean and healthy water. The units that combine a RO system and a high end remineralization filter are the best imo.

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  23. aaah many thanks for that Rob, that gives me a good reason to go for the water ioniser instead.

    And yes I am a fan of the knowledge you are willing to share too, very grateful to you.

    Blessings,
    Fan

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  24. Rob, thanks for so much good information. There is a metaphysical fair in Denver this weekend and a ionizer company is going to be there. I am thinking about getting an Alkaline Diet Stick from waterworks4u.com. What do you think about these portable units? Are they as beneficial as the larger ionizers? Any thoughts would be helpful. Again, thanks for conducting your research and sharing your findings with us.

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    • Hi Lolita:

      I have never heard of an Alkaline Diet Stick.

      I’m familiar with Hydrogen sticks, which cost between $6 and $13 to buy from China and sell in the $69 range in America. They are full of Magnesium and they meant to be placed in a bottle of water with the cap on the bottle. The reaction of the water to the magnesium forms hydrogen bubbles on the surface of the stick. When you want to drink the water, you shake up the bottle to release the hydrogen bubbles and then remove the cap and drink.

      I like the sticks for short trips but would never use them for day to day use. You typically need about 3-4 of them to work effectively which gets expensive. They don’t filter anything and they are cumbersome to use.

      There are stainless water bottles that use a similar concept. They are a little more convenient as they “steep” the water with magnesium. I wouldn’t recommend this product for home use, but it can be taken with you in a car or to a gym or to work. You just have to wait a long time to get the water to steep.

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  25. Hi:)
    Thank you for all the info–I was wondering what your thoughts are on the Pristine Hydro? I’m thinking of purchasing it instead of a water ionizer………

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    • Hi Leticia:

      I have spent some time studying the Pristine Hydro site. You will spend half the money and get a way better machine from Vitev. That is one of the reasons that I agreed to help Vitev, which in turn is the reason that I stopped writing articles on my blog. I don’t think it is right for me to continue blogging when I it is impossible for me to remain unbiased.

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  26. hi there.
    i have a 1 year old tyent 7070 counter top ionizer that i would like to sell…as i have moved to an area that i am unable to hook it up to my water source. do you have any ideas on a good place to sell this unit? i have 2 brand new filters to go with the selling of the unit. any ideas would be SO appreciated, as I have really enjoyed using it for cleaning dishes, counter tops, and for my home cleaning business…i am upset to say that i can no longer make use of it my own home.

    thanks!

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    • Hi Hillary:

      What are you using for drinking water at you new location? If you are using bottled water, you can get a pump that will draw water from a bottle and pump it into your Tyent. I used to use this type of setup when I was doing health shows years ago when I was selling Tyent machines.

      I once bought a Kangen SD501 that I bought for comparison testing purposes on eBay for $1,500 and then later sold it for the same price. You might want to try eBay

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  27. Rob,

    I just bought a Tyent 11 plate under the counter ionizer. After doing research I am not sure that I made the right purchase for a number of reasons. One of which is very disconcerting. There have been studies done on rats that using synthetic/electrical ionized water can induce pathological changes to the heart muscle causing arrythmias.
    You mentioned the Vitev Ultra, which is a natural way to alkalize. I need to make a decision within the next couple of weeks, and any insight that you could give me would be much appreciated.
    Enjoy reading your blog.
    Thank you,
    Kathy

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    • Hi Kathy:

      Based upon extensive personal research, I would never waste money on an electric water ionizer that has more than 7 plates. In fact, the 5 plate machines are perfectly good when source water conditions are good (where the water is not too hard or too soft). Companies like Tyent make ridiculous “my Dad is bigger than your Dad” claims about irrelevant factors such as the plate number/size and the amount of power because they can’t be bothered or they won’t spend the money to do the research.

      Natural is better….it is really that simple. The natural water ionizer achieve the same results as electric water ionizers (except they don’t produce acid water for cleaning purposes) and they add minerals to the water which most humans need. For example, Magnesium is critically important to human health and 97% of Americans are Magnesium deficient. Everybody knows about the importance of including calcium in their diets because of the advertising done by the Milk Marketing Boards, but what people don’t know is that Calcium can’t be properly absorbed without the presence of Magnesium.

      You mentioned the the Vitev Ultra as a possible alternative. It has been a great product, but Vitev has replaced it with their new MAXX. I have spent the last six months helping Vitev improve on the Ultra and the MAXX is the result. The MAXX is a superior machine and it costs $795 instead of $995. You can check it out at: http://www.vitev.com/alkaline-water-ionizers/maxx/. If you have any questions about the machine, visit the chat line on the Vitev website. I will try to spend some time this week helping Vitev out with the chatline since I wrote an article about the MAXX on my blog on Friday.

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  28. Hi Rob, your blog and answers provide alot of help. We are based in Brisbane and our options are quite limited. The water quality we have here is hard water.

    My 3 year old girl has eczema so we are looking for a unit which produces acidic water for her to bathe in.

    What do you think of the EOS Revelation vs EOS Genesis Platinum? We will have to install the units by ourselves.

    Thanks!

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    • Hi Mei:

      The EOS Genesis Platinum is a great electric water ionizer. I have tested them and I chat regularly with a guy who has sold hundreds of them. I don’t know why anyone would spend more money on any other electric water ionizer. Check out http://www.waterhealthcare.ca to see if they still carry them. I think they sell them for about $950.

      Hard water is just destroys the performance of electric water ionizers. The ionization process quickly scales up the plates which renders the machines virtually useless.

      When I joined Vitev at the beginning of the year, they put me in charge of finding a solution for scaling for their natural water ionizers and RO systems. While RO systems and natural water ionizers don’t suffer nearly as badly from scaling as electric water ionizers, their performance is still negatively affected by scaling. I looked around the internet to see what solutions were available. The solutions ranged from Chanson’t virtually useless Ionizer Armor to Kangens effective but ridiculously annoying 5 hour per week soaking solution.

      I called up one of my mentors in the water industry. He is the top guy in the world when it comes to providing solutions for the big water filter companies and for commercial applications. One of his anti-scaling products is found in virtually every coffee shop in the world. Coffee shops use a lot of hot water and they can’t afford to have scaling shut down or handicap their systems because without good water, coffee shops go out of business. Based upon my requirements, he designed a pre-filter for me that would take care of hard water scaling problems for residential water ionizers and reverse osmosis systems using the same technology that he has been using all over the world for many years. You can see the pre-filter at: http://www.vitev.com/scale-guard/ The unit sells for $129 with the replacement filters which should last a year or more costing $99. You can read about the details on the website. I can tell you is that it works and can be installed in seconds.

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  29. Thanks Rob for your advice.

    Can I purchase the vitev descaler in Australia?

    Also, I dont want to get caught up with which water ionizer is better but my parents have a KYK unit and the sales rep told me that KYK won a lawsuit against EOS for copying their system? A KYK unit costs $3000 in Asia so I am wondering if it is better than the EOS? Thanks for your advice!

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    • Hi Mei:

      Vitev just introduced the descaler yesterday so they don’t have anyone selling them anywhere in the world yet. I assume you can buy it online from the company but the shipping charge may be a bit silly because of the distance. I would hit Gabe up on their chat line to see if you can work something out with him. I imagine that Vitev will have distributors from all over the world will be contacting them in the near future which should eliminate the shipping charges.

      I know a little about the history of the KYK – EOS rivalry. In fact, I have visited the EOS factory in Korea. The two companies have been suing each other for years with one decision getting overturned by the next round of lawsuits. It is all a waste of time imo. The entire water ionizer industry in Korea is incredibly incestuous. EOS manufactured the units for KYK who sold them under their own brand name with their own cover plate. EOS also manufactures the same product for other companies as well. All you really need to know is that the units are virtually identical once you remove the front cover plate and the machines are very good.

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  30. Thanks Rob! I’ll get in touch with vitev to see how I could get a descaler unit.

    We were thinking of getting the EOS Revelation as it seems easier to install. The price difference is minimal since there’s an additional year of warranty in Australia. But there isn’t much leads online. Your thoughts? I know the 9 plate doesnt do much difference to a 7 plate. Just that the Revelation saves us bench space as well. Sorry to ask u a million questions. We are definitely going to buy a unit soon and want to make the best decision with what we’ve here in QLD. Thanks Rob!

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    • Hi Mei:

      I would get the EOS Genesis Platinum from http://www.waterhealthcare.ca for $950. You will have to pay for shipping but I imagine the savings would be huge. You could get the warranty work done in Australia or ship it back to Canada for free (but the shipping would likely be more expensive than the warranty work). The machines rarely break down.

      The one downside is that the EOS takes up a lot of room on the bench as it is a big sucker.

      For my money, I would get the Maxx for $795 from Vitev (you will already be paying for shipping if you get the Scale Guard). In order to get the acid water that you require for skin care, you could install the Maxx with a bypass that leads directly from the membrane to a separate tank that holds acidic water. I know…I know…I sometimes make decisions more difficult for people. I’m a water geek that has spent years fooling around with these machines looking for a better way….that doesn’t mean that I’m right :)

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  31. Why are you only promoting Vitev products?

    Why are there virtually no reviews of Vitev products online?

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    • HI Kingcole:

      I agreed to help Vitev with their product development in February last year. They don’t pay me but they do support my research in exchange for the right of first refusal to sell any products that I develop.

      Since last February, I have been busy….but not with blogging. I have written 3 articles in the past 11 months as opposed to about 100 per year in the previous three years. One of the articles was about Dr. Batman and the other two were about products that I developed that I thought readers might want to know about. I don’t see how two product development articles in a nearly a year means I’m promoting anyone. You would have to talk to Vitev about what you perceive as a lack of reviews. I know that I have had communications with lots of Vitev customers who love their products, but I would never write about it.

      I have developed another new product called VYVwater that I’m actually going to take ownership of and will be promoting myself. I have been begging the water ionizer industry for years to create a low cost effective water ionizer that everyone can afford. The VYVwater pitcher will sell for $59. It produces alkaline water (9.5 pH) that adds electrolytes (like Gatorade but with zero calories) and most important of all, produces plenty of molecular hydrogen (which you will be reading alot about in the future)

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  32. Rob, I read your informative answers and suggestions on the RO systems. I am leaning toward the Vitev Ultra that you recommended.

    I have one question though about a comment that I hear a Doctor say about alkalinity. He says that the body regulates its own alkalinity and acidity. That different parts of our body have different alkalinity and acidity. He mentions that taking in alkaline water will destroy the acidity that our stomach needs and is indispensable in our stomach.

    What about that?

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    • Hi Danny:

      Vitev replaced the Ultra with a much better system called the MAXX about a year ago. The MAXX system improved upon the Ultra in several ways (easier to change filters, more media in the Remin filter, etc) but the most important upgrade imo is the addition of a permeate pump (their website has some fancy marketing name for it). The permeate pump reduces waste water by up to 80% and it refills the holding tank up to 4 times faster than normal reverse osmosis systems. And the best news of all is that the MAXX costs $200 less than the Ultra was selling for and the company recently added a replacement set of filters which saves another $199.

      You asked about a comparison of the Vitev and Aqualiv products in a follow up comment. I have nothing negative to say about the Aqualiv product, but the MAXX is so much better that the decision is a no-brainer in terms of value and what the systems offer.

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  33. Rob, I’m sorry, but I also meant to ask if there is any real difference between the Vitev Ultra which you recommend and the Aqualiv systems. Or are they basically the same.

    thanks, Danny

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