I can’t begin to tell you how much pleasure it gives me to write this article. I will never forget being severly chastized a few years ago by a senior executive of a company that sells thousands of RO systems per year for “not knowing what I’m talking about”. He informed me that my challenge to him and the industry about RO water being unhealthy was “preposterous”. At the time of the meeting I was not equipped to fend off his accusations because I hadn’t put in the research that I have now.
I never believed the RO industry claim that the human body couldn’t absorb inorganic molecules anyway. Most of the supplements that are available on the market are inorganic, which means that either the RO industry was protecting its “ass-ets” or the entire supplement industry was a scam.
The RO industry has been disseminating inaccurate information for years. Doctors and other health care professionals have unwittingly been endorsing the “RO water is the best drinking water” message for years which makes the myth worse because we trust these people with our health.
I have conducted dozens of interviews with RO system owners and sales people, and they all take some form of magnesium and calcium supplements. Why is it that they take the supplements when their story is that your body can’t absorb the calcium and magnesium that is found in most source waters.
Proof that RO water is unhealthy
I have conducted dozens of interviews with RO system owners and sales people, and they all take some form of magnesium and calcium supplements. Why is it that they take the supplements when their story is that your body can’t absorb the calcium and magnesium that is found in most source waters.
I offer two sources of evidence that unequivically reveal the fact that the water produced by RO systems is bad for your health if you drink the water over the long term.
The American government’s online health website www.pubmed.gov is an arm of the National Institutes of Health. I spent several long days poring over numerous studies related to the ability of the human body to absorb inorganic elements such as Calcium and Magnesium. I managed to find 14 scientific studies on the site that provide irrefutable evidence that the human body can and does absorb inorganic matter.
The bottom line of what I learned from reviewing the studies is that your body typically absorbs anywhere from 6% to 30% of its daily requirement of essential elements from tap water. In a world where our soil is virtually devoid of nutrients from too many crops and not enough recovery time, and where diets are anything but healthy, it is very important to your long term health that you ingest calcium and magnesium from drinking water.
A second website that drives a dagger into the RO industry myth that pure water is healthy, comes from the World Health Organization (W.H.O.). The WHO provides us with a Position Paper titled “The Health risks from drinking demineralized water” which was written by F. Kozisek.
Here is a link to the article: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutdemineralized.pdf
Here are some of the highlights from the article:
The final report, published as an internal working document (WHO 1980), concluded that “not only does completely demineralised water (distillate) have unsatisfactory organoleptic properities, but it also has a definite adverse influence on the animal and human organism.”
The potential for adverse health effects from long term consumption of demineralised water is of interest not only in countries lacking adequate fresh water but also in countries where demineralizing home water treatment systems are widely used or demineralized bottled water is consumed.
In 2004, the WHO provided recommendations for drinking water:
* For magnesium, a minimum of 10 mg/l (Novikov et al. 1983; Rubenowitz et al. 2000) and an optimum of about 20-30 mg/l (Durlach et al. 1989; Kozisek 1992);
* For calcium, a minimum of 20 mg/l (Novikov et al. 1983) and an optimum of about 50 (40-80) mg/l (Rakhmanin et al. 1990; Kozisek 1992);
* For total water hardness, the sum of calcium and magnesium should be 2 to 4 mmol/l (Plitman et al. 1989; Lutai 1992; Muzalevskaya et al. 1993; Golubev and Zimin 1994).
At these concentrations, minimum or no adverse health effects were observed. The maximum protective or beneficial health effects of drinking water appeared to occur at the estimated desirable or optimum concentrations. The recommended magnesium levels were based on cardiovascular system effects, while changes in calcium metabolism and ossification were used as a basis for the recommended calcium levels
Summary of the research:
Scientific testing and the best “unbiased” brains in the world have repeatedly demonstrated that long term consumption of demineralized (RO) water is bad for your health.
What to do if you are drinking demineralized “RO” water?
Before doing anything, you should test the water that comes out of your RO unit once per year to make sure it is working properly.
You can remineralize your RO water by adding a remin filter to your RO system to make it healthy, OR, you can take calcium and magnesium supplements. Many remin filters are available online which introduce calcium and magnesium into the water. The ideal remin filter contains elemental magnesium, because the action of water running across the magnesium will create hydrogen gas which is incredibly healthy for you. I can’t over-emphasize the importance of drinking hydrogen rich water as it may be the single most important health tip you will ever read. Please take some time to read up about molecular hydrogen gas (H2) on my blog.
What if I don’t have a water filter system in your house?
If you are not sure what is in your water, get it tested, especially if your water comes from a well or a lake which isn’t sanitized. Drinking water is so important to your health that you should never take it for granted.
If you receive your drinking water from a municipality, the water is probably safe to drink. However, there could be one or more contaminants that should be removed from municipally supplied drinking water and most of them can be removed by inexpensive filter systems.
If your drinking water contains fluoride, you can buy a ceramic filter which does a pretty good job (removes about 85% of fluoride versus about 92% to 95% for RO systems) for up to 6 months and 50% for the following 6 months. Forget buying an activated alumina filter to remove fluoride. The marketing claims greatly exceed the actual performance despite what you will read on websites trying to sell you an activated alumina solution.
If your drinking water contains contaminants that can’t be reliably removed by basic filter systems, you may need to get a RO system, but remember to remineralize.
What should I be looking for in a drinking water system?
It is all about clean and healthy when it comes to water. Clean is simple to understand as it is about removing contaminants. Healthy water starts with the inclusion of magnesium and calcium content, but healthy water can be taken to a whole other level. Adding molecular hydrogen (H2) to water has been identified as contributing health benefits to more than 170 diseases by more approximately 700 scientific studies and review papers.
Should I be looking at buying a hydrogen water system?
Absolutely.
The downside of buying a hydrogen water system is that they are expensive. An argument can be made that “what is your health worth” but many people have priorities that don’t include an expensive drinking water system.
The good news is that the makers of good hydrogen water machines sell for about $2,000 which is less (or a lot less) than leading alkaline water ionizers despite being vastly superior to alkaline water ionizers at generating hydrogen rich water.
Where can you buy H2 products?
You can also do a Google search of molecular hydrogen (H2) to find a number of sites that sell H2 products.
The best site by far to buy H2 products is www.brilliantz.com.
You should be asking yourself: “Why is this guy touting a specific website” and you would be right to question my motive.
I know the people at Brilliantz. They sell good high quality H2 products and they are good people. That is well and fine, but the reason for my overwhelming endorsement is that they recently changed their business model from selling through an Affiliate network to selling directly to the public. The net result of the change is that they reduced their prices by 50%.
Brilliantz doesn’t pay any commissions or referral fees. I’m giving Brilliantz my full support as you will be hard pressed to find anyone who recommends Brilliantz due to the fact that there is zero financial incentive to do so. I don’t have a problem with that as I have never used WaterFYI as a source of income.
Thanks for reading
Great post Rob!
Hi Steve:
Thanks for the encouragement. Great things are finally happening in the industry as the products are getting better and prices are lower.
Keep landing em wheels first
Hi
Good post but you state nothing about the organic impurities (micro organisums) etc also present in the water. Some RO’s in India claim that their UV(Ultra voilet) filter also kills those bacteria so how valid is such claims?
Hi Sinigh:
RO systems easily remove organic impurities. Giardia and Chlorosporidia (SP?) easily get captured by the micro mesh of an RO membrane.
I think UV lights should be viewed as a back up system. If the membrane on a RO system stops working (this can happen due to a number of situations such as having chloramines eating away at the membrane or the membrane simply getting old), a UV system can work as a temporary backup to kill any bacteria. Proper maintenance of a RO system should insure that the system works properly.
You dont need to buy expensive remineralizers for r/o, just throw some UNREFINED sea salt into the mix. As long the salt isnt white as snow then its not refined. unrefined salt contains all the minerals just over 75 roughly and contains iodine from the sea. No point buying iodized salt, that is just garbage since its refined, they have to add iodine back into the mix. Piece of garbage salt
add like 3 spoons to a gallon, maybe less, there was a correct ratio i read somewhere, cant remember. Then you swoosh it around and store in the fridge over night. Voila, remineralized with salt bought from a store, shipped from the sea without a refinery.
Hi John:
Or you could buy a good remin filter that creates water that is at the ideal pH and has the ideal amount of Calcium and Magnesium in the water and actually creates free hydrogen. The remin filters cost about $150 per year which is a lot more expensive, but this is definitely a case of you get what you pay for.
There is a lot of info and dis -info on the web from all these experts??? that are all trying to confuse everybody on a lot of issues like the water we drink for instance.
One would definitely not expect anything better from the WHO than the crap they spread again about distilled and RO water.
I have been drinking RO water for the last 25 years and enjoy perfect health. What about the minerals? Ha! but….. are they not in the well balanced food that I eat?? Why should I have them in the water as well??? so please do not pay attention to all these EXPERTS!!. Just make sure you have your raw veg juices daily, stay away from dangerous meat, chicken, fish and junk food. Eat your fruit and veggies with every meal and yes RO and distilled water is by far the best. Go for a nice health walk down the sea and collect a fist full of shells, clean them and put them on a 2 lt container as I do. Then fill the container with RO water or distilled and drink from that one even though as I explained, you do not have to do even that…
Best of health
Elias:
While I respect everyone’s opinion, and I admire your eating habits (raw veg juices, fruit, veggies with every meal and staying away from meat, chicken, junk food) and your lifestyle habits (a nice walk down the sea collecting shells), I don’t think that many people have your lifestyle. So, when you tell people that drinking RO water is fine, I can definitely see where it applies to you personally, but there is a whole other world out there that doesn’t dedicate themselves to eating properly. For those billions of people, I think the RO analysis applies.
Don’t worry for the RO filter you have just bought and wondering about health adverse effects it might have ,here is a quick solution to remineralise
the RO water.Demin water(RO) necessarily has a TDS(I myself measured with a TDS meter) below 5 ppm which is awefully low for human consumption(WHO prescribes max upto 300 ppm).So mix 60% of RO water with 40% of clean boiled and cooled tap water available from your Govt systems.
Hi Samson:
Your solution could make sense but there are so many variables depending upon the source water. I know tap water sources that are as clean as RO water and I also know tap water that has huge TDS counts. Does the tap water have fluoride and other chemicals in it. Boiling tap water kills germs to make it immediately safe but what else is in the water. I would stick to RO water with the “right” mix of TDS components and the proper amount of TDS if I had a choice. The main thing is to drink lots of clean healthy water.
Wow Rob! This is a great find and thanks for doing the research! I definitely will be using this article if you don’t mind.
Thanks Neal….feel free to use the article or anything else you find of interest on the site. The entire point is to spread the word about benefits of the water so “share away”.
This is upsetting for me because I have a R.O. System that I got because we have flouride in our tap water and I was told R.O. Was the only wat to remove it. I just now questioned the lack of minerals in our drinking water, in part because my son and I have recently found out we have low thyroid. I purchased ionic sea mineral drops for our water. Do you think this will work? $250.00 for a ceramic filter every two years does not sound like such a good deal!
Hi Jamie:
I think $10 per month to obtain the best man made drinking water in the world is very small price to pay. Places like Whole Foods and health food stores sell a half liter bottle of alkaline water for $2 so $10 per month for an entire family seems cheap…and virtually no environmental impact for those who care about such things.
Sea mineral drops will probably help, but they are not as convenient and will cost a lot more in an apples to apples comparison.
I recently installed and started to use an RO system when a coworker warned me of the dangers. This led me to this site. The system I’m using seems to put something back in to the water according to the test strips (pH, hardness, etc) but I’m not convinced that I’m getting all the minerals that I should be. Do you have any recommendations on a remineralization filter? Thank you.
Hi Gabe:
I joined a company recently called Vitev LLC. One of the reasons I joined Vitev is that they make a Remin filter that adds Magnesium and Calcium into the water in the amount recommended by the World Health Organization. The water that gets produced by the Remin filters is alkaline and energized. I think it is the ideal solution for RO owners to make their water healthy. The Remin filter costs $199 and lasts for a year or more.
eat dark veggies and salads, drink organic whole milk and suplement if you want but really just the first two should be fine. What the author neglects to mention is that a proper diet can replace the minerals because no where is there a “set” level of these things. There have been people who go their whole lives drinking distilled water and live longer than the average… im not saying its right for everybody but what the author and who neglected to bring up was comparative damage of fluoride and chlorine vs possible (not guaranteed) slight mineral deficiency.
Id put my money on drinking RO or distilled everyday as being the path to a longer life. The other thing that hasnt been studied is chlorine effects on your gi track. We count on probiotics to process certain nutrients and constantly bathing them in chlorine seems like a bad idea.
Hi John:
You mentioned “there have been people who go their whole lives drinking distilled water and live longer than the average.” Do you have documentation to support that statement? Even if your statement does apply to a small number of people, how does a “distilled water only” regimen affect their health and quality of life. And what about the huge number of people who have suffered the ill affects of a “distilled water only” regimen.
I’m 100% against fluoridation of water. It is unnecessary and harmful. The entire concept of drinking poison for a lifetime is preposterous.
If you are worried about chlorine in drinking water from a municipal source, simply leave it out in the air for a few minutes and the chlorine will evaporate.
I have nothing against drinking RO water….just remineralize it before drinking
Have you heard of AquaLiv water filtration system? I am wondering if their system is all that they state.
Hi Cheryl:
I have quite a few inquiries about Aqualiv. There was a time when I found Craig Hoffman’s theories interesting but over time, I have lost interest. I think his attacks on main stream water ionizers end up sounding like sour grapes.
The company went public some time ago and then started messing around big time with their pricing. I just don’t get a good feeling as their story is inconsistent and confusing. I have never actually had anyone contact me to say they were happy with the system. How about it Aqualiv supporters…let’s here something good about the company.
hii rob!!!
Great job n Thanx for sharing your research.
Company claims that they have mineral cartridge in ro system which re-adds the minerals to the water. I wanna know whether the cartridge is capable of doing so and if yes do they add minerals in accurate proportion.
Plz do reply..
Hi Shafi:
Which company are you referring to in regards to the RO system with a Remin cartridge. If you are referring to Vitev’s Ultra, I can tell you from extensive testing that the filter does do what the company claims. I have seen the independent lab test results for how much Ca and Mg that the Remin filter puts into the water and the results fall into the range that the WHO recommends as optimal.
hi rob thanx for ur reply,
well am from india, here kent ro is supposed to be the best ro system.
One thing more i want to know that ro system has uv lamps for killing bacterias, is uv lamp harmful for us??
Hi Shafi:
RO systems are the best for any water supply that i not safe to drink. The problem with RO systems of course is that they take everything out of the water. Every RO system needs to have some sort of Remineralization filter to put back Magnesium and Calcium into the water. I put emphasis on the Magnesium because I have read that 97% of people do not get enough Magnesium in their diet.
An Ultra Violet system is also a good idea as a back up system for unsafe source water. I have never read anything about Ultra Violet systems being unsafe
You mentioned you have a great solution for people with the reverse osmosis water. But you never explained what remineralizing filter you discovered, what is it called (brand name) and where can you buy it. The solution for RO water is what we are all hoping to find, so please give us the details, so we can also buy one. thanks.
Hi Abel:
The product you are looking for is the Remin filter offered by Vitev (http://www.vitev.com). It sells for $199 and lasts for a full year. It is the best product on the market imo.
I refrained from mentioning or endorsing specific products for years in an attempt to remain unbiased. As I learned more about Vitev’s products and they way they conducted their business, I became more and more of a fan. Despite turning down many job offers from companies over the years, I accepted Vitev’s offer this year to help them with their product development. Based upon my obvious allegiance to the company that I’m helping out, I now feel comfortable letting people know about Vitev’s products.
I’m assuming your title was to polarize and for marketing more than for info. Saying that it is BAD for you is implying it is taking away from your health (smoking is bad for you.) It is not taking away, it is simply not adding those two minerals. For those who are getting enough Magnesium and Calcium RO is perfectly fine.
Hi Christl:
Who am I to argue with World Health Organization. They have stated very clearly that drinking demineralized water can be harmful to your health. Since 97% of Americans don’t get enough Mg, it would lead me to believe that taking any Mg out of the water would be a negative.
As you say, “for those who are getting enough Mg and Ca”, using a RO system is fine. I have talked to lots of people who make a living selling RO systems and they all supplement their diet with Ca and Mg. There is nothing wrong with that. The question is: “Do they tell their potential customers that they will need to supplement their diet if they buy a RO system as part of the sales pitch”
My goal was not so scare people but rather to inform them.
I see. I have a lot of friends who refuse to drink RO because they just read the headline of a study and say “oh no!” I’ve heard that dropping a white
Marble in your reserve tank or even your water jug can solve this problem. Is that safe? Or even true?
Hi Christl:
I don’t think dropping a marble into your water jug will do anything.
Great article Rob. We are doubting about buying an RO system with remineraliser. I read the report from the WHO before and it actually lead me to this article.
How can I test if the remineraliser adds enough magnesium and calcium to the water (and not too much…peeing out kidney stones hurts like hell I heard hehe). Is there a cheap strip or device to test it?
Hi Rick:
The manufacturer of the Remin filter provided me with independent test result in January 2013. The results showed that the output water contained Ca (calcium) and Mg (magnesium) in amounts that fall within the ideal range recommended by the WHO. The test showed that the RO part of the system took almost everything out of the water and then put Ca back into the water at 65-70 parts per million (ppm) and Mg at 40-45 ppm. I found it interesting that the Remin filter also added about 5 ppm of K (potassium) because I’m not sure which of the media was responsible for adding the K.
I poked around the internet a bit to see if I could find an inexpensive device to measure Ca and Mg and came up empty. As far as I can tell, you need to get a lab to do the testing.
I am a urologist in India.
I have seen prima facie evidence that though RO water consumption leads to lower incidence of infectious diseases but it leads to higher incidence of stones.
I am starting a Project to look into positive correlation between RO Water Consumption & Urinary Stone formation.
I would appreciate it if you could provide me with the Links to prior publications on RO water’s harmful effects, what are the reasons behind RO Water not being the most suitable water to drink & what should be done to mitigate it.
Please send me as many citations as possible regarding the above.
My email id is mihir.28290@gmail.com
Thanks & Great job !
Appreciate the research.
((If you are keenly interested in this field, maybe we could share knowledge and do a large scale publication in the same (i am planning one right now).
Btw, i am a Urologist with more than 25 years of experience.
I am practicing in India.))
Wow,
I have been drinking RO water for the past 4 years, because I have well water in North Carolina, USA. For the first time in my life (and my mother says no one in our family has had kidney stones that she is aware of) I passed a 4cm kidney stone, which was very painful. I am 64 years old.
I am very interested in what you find regarding the relationship of kidney stones and RO systems. I know my water has a high mineral content and I was worried about getting kidney stones (mountain folks seem to be prone to them so I thought the high minerals was how they were formed). So I installed an RO system.
Needless to say I was very shocked when I passed one!
Now I am not sure what to do. I haven’t taken the stone to a urologist, but will soon, to find out it’s composition.
Hi Anna:
Gosh, I hope you meant 4mm because 4cm is over 1 1/2 inches in diameter which about the size of a golf ball. If it was 4cm, you mountain folk are definitely tougher than us city folk.
I’m not a doctor and definitely not a urologist.
From the little bit of research that I have done, my understanding is taht using a RO system should lessen the likelihood of the occurrence of kidney stones for the exact reason that you stated. As such, I would be surprised if your RO system was responsible unless the membrane in your system is not functioning properly. You can easily test your system by taking a sample of your water (once it has passed through the RO system) to a hot tub/spa type store and have them check the TDS of the sample. You can also call the town to see where they get their testing done, but I try to keep my life simple.
I would ask your urologist what he/she thinks. I have been lead to believe that kidney issues are very specific case by case so I would always consult a urologist first.
Hi Oliver:
I don’t understand your comment. Are you saying twin or triple filter systems remove 99% of calcium and magnesium? The removal level of any contaminant would depend upon the media in the filters. Deionizing resins remove virtually any charged particle such as Mg or Ca, but carbon and sediment filters don’t remove them.
RO systems are the primary culprits when it comes to demineralizing water while other filters are generally not nearly as efficient at removing contaminants. Most double or triple filter systems don’t demineralize the water.
Rob,
you are right. My mistake.
The filter description says:
Manganese, Cadmium. These are different monsters from mg and ca.
Thanks
————————————————————
Impurities % Reduction
Escherichia Coli 100.0
Residual Chlorine Content 99.0
Trihalomethanes (THM) % Reduction
Bromodichloromethane 99.5
Bromoform 99.5
Chloroform 99.5
Dibromochloromethane 99.5
Metals % Reduction
Zinc, Iron 99.0
Lead, Manganese, Cadmium 99.9
Copper, Mercury
99.9
Aluminium
99.9
http://www.truwater.com.au/under-sink-filter-systems-triple-water-filter-systems-c-11_101/doulton-ceramic-fluoride-triple-undersink-water-filter-system-p-775
Hi my parents just got a carbon filtration system for the whole house and a RO filter under the kitchen sink. They want to use the RO for drinking and cooking but I now feel terrible because I recommended it to them after doing shallow research. I even just read that RO water leeches minerals and vitamins when used to cook vegetables which my mom does ALOT and was excited to use that way.
The RO filter (and home carbon system) is by Riversoft. Do you know anything about their stuff? Would you recommend they just drink both the carbon and RO filtrated water? Or just the carbon water? I’m almost scared to tell them because they feel I speak up after the fact which is true and my fault. They spent ALOT of money on the entire system. Thanks for your help.
Hi Deb:
You have made a couple of very good recommendations for you Mom.
Having a carbon filter for the whole house is a great idea as it removes chlorine from the source water. That is particularly important for showers.
Using a RO system to remove contaminants from drinking water is also solves have the problem with drinking water…the cleaning part. Unfortunately, RO systems remove virtually everything from the water which can be very unhealthy for people over the long term. Experienced RO drinkers know that they need to add Calcium and Magnesium to their diets, so they typically take a Cal/Mag supplement. I think it makes more sense to add a good Remineralization filter that adds the minerals back into the water. Vitev has a “Remin” filter that sells for $249 which puts Calcium and Magnesium back into the water at levels considered optimal by the World Health Organization. You really can’t get better drinking water. Check them out.
Hi Rob, glad I came across this article. I just came to the realisation that this might be something I should think about! My mother in law has a RO system which we fill water bottles from.
Im not sure if she would want to purchase a remineralising filter, so what would be the best option for me to remineralise my water?
I use a ceramic water filter (like the one below) to store/dispense our water
http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/576786/ceramic_crock_WATER_COOLER_2_gallon.html
Hi Lauren:
The least expensive alternative would be to purchase mineral drops from a health/nutrition store
Hello there
Thanks for this useful article. I have breast cancer as a result have been trying to clean up my diet in general and avoid putting any toxic substances into my body. I have been trying to work out what kind of home water purification system would be best for me…. Many cancer diets suggest drinking only RO or distilled water, but other schools of thought say that both these waters are “dead” water, and others(such as yourself) say that RO water is bad for you….
I have bought an ionizer because of the benefits of ionized water, but still need to “clean” the water before it gets ionized…. I was looking at a triple filtration system as one of the other commentators has mentioned here – although the one I was looking at was the Chanson C3:
http://www.chansonalkalinewater.com/cart/chanson-c3-pre-filtration-system.html
Chanson also do another system called the Nano which filters out more but is also more expensive and I really don’t know which I need, or indeed whether this set up is a good one for me in the circumstances….
I’d rather not do RO then remineralise then Ionize, it doesnt seem to make sense and whats more I don’t think I’ve got room!
Can you offer any advice on these triple filters? This whole area is so complex and to a mere lay person its hard to work out what you need….
I’d be so grateful if you can help. thanks
Jenny
Sorry, this is the Nano:
http://www.chansonalkalinewater.com/cart/chanson-nano-filtration-system.html
Hey Rob, great read. I have an Vertex 5 stage RO filter that I’ve been using for the past year. I didn’t opt for the company’s alkalizing/remineralizing addition because I wasn’t sure about it so I’ve been adding about 7 drops/litre of ConcenTrace, which are ionic minerals & trace elements from the Great Salt Lake in Utah. After reading this article i checked the supplement facts on the label and they provide chloride, magnesium sulfate, sodium and potassium “Plus all other minerals and trace minerals found in sea water” but fail to mention calcium. I will look into the Remin addition for my filter.
Also, I read this interesting article about water and I’m curious as to the legitimacy of the findings and info.
http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/water.htm
Hi Adam:
I have read Dr. Wilson’s article. I agree with a lot of what he says in terms of finding water from a deep spring if possible and that carbon filters are good.
I also think that his solution of finding spring water from a deep spring are impractical for most of us.
He criticizes almost everything, which is fine, but for the 99.9% of us that don’t have the time or resources to get natures best water.
I don’t think he has done enough research to be making all of the comments he makes, but heh everybody has an opinion and he is entitled to his.
I think filtration is important to remove contaminants from the water. That means that municipalities have to use chlorine or chloramines. Most of us have to live with that. While I hate fluoridation of water, a lot of us have to live with it. I think the important issue is to make the best of the cards we are dealt.
If you don’t have chlorine in your water…get a carbon filter
If you have chloramines in your water…get a catalytic carbon filter
If you have fluoride in your water…get a RO system
If you get a RO system…get a Remineralization filter to put Mg and Ca back into your water
I believe in drinking water that is alkaline in order to buffer the acidic diets most of us consume
I believe in getting minerals into our bodies (especially Mg as 97% of us are deficient in this incredibly important element) via diet or water. My personal favorite for water is natural water ionizers as their ionization process is typically fueled by running water through Magnesium
Hi Rob
Any chance you could respond to my post above Adam’s?
Just to add, based on what you said above, my water company say they don’t add flouride and their data says that the Flouride content of my water is 0.131625 ppm and the company that makes the filter (Chanson) have said “If your fluoride level is at 0.13 then you should be fine with the C3, we know that the C3 reduces the amount of fluoride in water but we don’t have exact numbers so I can’t give you a yes or no to whether or not all of the fluoride will be removed from your water. I can say that the nano is the pre-filter we recommend when a customer is concerned about fluoride levels. ”
Be garetful for any help you can give….
Thanks
Hi Jenny:
If the concentration of fluoride in your water is only 0.13 ppm, then I agree with your water company…they are not adding fluoride to the water supply.
Fluoride occurs naturally and my understanding is that it is not harmful like manufactured fluoride.
The EPA set a recommended max of 1.2 ppm in the past and I believe they adjusted the recommended amount down to 0.7ppm in 2012.
I wouldn’t be concerned with a level of 0.13 ppm of naturally occurring fluoride.
If Chanson is trying to gain acceptance of its Nano filter as a device that removes fluoride, I would recommend getting it tested by the WQA according to NSF standards. The process typically costs about $20,000 but if you want to make claims, that is the entry cost.
Hi. What would you recommend for ppl who purchase their RO water? We were using concenTrace ionic minerals but I was worried about the arsenic and mercury in them. Also someone stated here that they do not include calcium. A personal RO system is not an option for us at the moment and our water source has both chlorine and flouride added. We started purchasing spring water in bottles because the RO water with added drops we were drinking started giving me headaches and tasting very metallic. I don’t want to continue drinking spring water because of the plastic containers. What brand of drops should we use in RO water to supplement the mg and ca?
Hi Tara:
I would want to get rid of the fluoride and chlorine so I would find a way to get an RO system.
Vitev will have a new RO/Remin system available shortly that is light years ahead of anything else on the market in terms of RO systems. Vitev’s system will provide Mg and Ca according to the optimal levels recommended by the World Health Organization. The unit will also use up to 80% less water than conventional RO systems and the tank will fill up four times faster than other systems which means that water pressure will likely never be an issue and it also means you can install a smaller tank for tight spaces. At $795, the system makes a lot of sense.
If you can’t afford the new Vitev system, you can go to Costco and get a RO system for about $150 and then add your drops. I would be preferable to add Vitev’s Remin filter to the system but it will cost you about $250 per year.
If you can find a local spring that isn’t polluted, the water is free or you might have to pay a small filling fee to the owner of the spring. That would be my preference in a perfect world.
Who knows, you may have a point, yet only Corporate shills say stuff like ” light years ahead…”
And WHO still spouts off lies about the “dangers” of saturated fat, and I’m sure plenty of other things as well, so It is not like these cats are infallible.
http://www.ancient-minerals.com/magnesium-sources/?gclid=CND1soHr6r0CFWuhOgodQGcABA
And why not get magnesium from other sources instead of giving you money? I will trust other sources of this information who don’t have skin in the game.
Hi Devil:
Geez…really sorry you don’t like the way I write. Light years ahead is an enthusiastic phrase for saying that a product is dramatically better than another. I guess that makes me a corporate schill….but then again, I don’t work for the company that sells the product and I don’t make anything on my blog. Imagine that….no, you probably can’t. I just don’t fit into a world of disgruntled internet trolls.
I believe everyone should introduce more magnesium to their diets. Mg is so important to many functions in your body and 97% of people are Mg deficient. How one gets the additional Mg is irrelevant to me. I’m a big fan of water and if water adds Mg, then I support it.
You and the other believers in the dark side will be thrilled to hear that I have been working on a project that I’m proud to call my own. Soon, you will be able to stand up and pound proudly on your puffed out chests and claim that I am a schill. The product is a natural alkaline water pitcher which performs as well or better than any electric water ionizer I have ever tested. The water is rich in electrolytes and produces much more molecular hydrogen than any of the leading brands of electric water ionizers. I suspect we will all be hearing a lot more about molecular hydrogen in the future as the scientists have finally now produced about 300 studies proving the health benefits of molecular hydrogen. The best news for the man on the street is that the product is currently selling for $59.95 and the annual cost of filters is $80. As sales ramp up, my goal is to get the price down even further so that absolutely everyone can drink clean and healthy water.
C’mon Devil…bring on your wrath!
And that remineralizing filter is called….?
I, too, was suspicious of the salesperson’s claims that RO water was totally healthy for us despite turning plants yellow. I occasionally add trace minerals to my glass of water, but I never rally remember to do that. Also, I don’t think trace minerals are enough because we still lack calcium and magnesium.
What is your solution?
Hi Deanna:
Some of the mineral drop additives can deliver a lot of punch and as such are quite beneficial. I have never spent time researching the drops as they never seem to make it to the top of my list of research priorities. Maybe some day.
Check out Vitev’s Remin filter at http://www.vitev.com if you have an existing RO system.
I’m in the final stages of creating a new product that can be used with tap water or an RO system (different filters recommended depending upon if the water comes from the tap or an RO system). One of the incredible benefits of working with Vitev (for free) on their product development is that I get to own what I create and Vitev gets to market the products online. I have remained outside of the business end of the industry for years, but this new product is incredibly effective and everyone will be able to afford it. I will post an article when I can.
Have been using an 5 stage RO for past 11 years . We use well water that is clean of harmful bacteria when tested but felt better using an RO to be safe. However, now am concerned about the Ca And Mag problem. I have shown osteopenia and low vit D in blood despite living in a southern area and am outside in natural sun light daily. I do take a low dose statin drug which I recently heard blocks vit D production in the body.
Should we install your remineralization product to our RO now or wait for the new product you mentioned in last post? Thanks, appreciate your thoughts.
Hi Rita:
I had the pleasure of speaking with you on the Vitev chat line this morning after you sent in your comment. Hopefully I addressed all of your questions.
Hi Rob
This is a great find good job on the research.
My family has an Aquatec / Aquatec rainsoft whole house salt softening and carbon based filtration system, and also a triple RO filter for drinking water. Very recently though the company has been using as a final stage on the RO system a cartridge that adds back minerals. Can you tell me if, based on the info below, its safe to drink for adults and also for babies bottles? The cartridge/filter is made in the USA by Omnipure and states the following:
20% T-40 (not sure what this even is)
40% Calcite
40% Corosex
Or is this likely to dump too many minerals as mentioned and cause kidney stones?
We have been drinking demineralised to water for about 11 years, and have only just started researching it since this new filter was installed. As many people, we were sure that RO water was the best choice for our family, but now not so sure!
Please reply..
Thanks
Hi Neil:
Omnipure is a good filter company. I have had dealings with them for many years both learning from them and also educating them.
The Corosex filter that you have from Omni is exactly what I have been talking about. Vitev’s Remin filter is a much better solution for a number of reasons, including the one you noted in your comment. I don’t think it will take Omni long to get up to speed as I have been helping them understand why they need to upgrade the filter and how to do so.
I don’t understand why people would want Alkaline water? Fish in alkaline water will die, plants fed alkaline water will die. Why would humans need something that is alkaline when our entire ecosystems and biology is based on acids?
Hi Joey:
I don’t know of a municipality in North America that doesn’t deliver water that is alkaline to it’s customers. The Safe Drinking Water Act of the EPA mandates that municipally supplied water must have a pH that falls in the range of 6.5 to 8.5 so it is possible that cities and towns could deliver water that is slightly acidic. I just don’t know of any.
I don’t understand why the electric water ionizer companies claim that the higher the pH their machines produce, the better the machine. The human body has a sophisticated system of buffers that will bring the pH to the level that it requires, so crazy high pH numbers don’t make sense.
I do recognize that drinking somewhat alkaline water helps because the buffers that neutralize the alkalinity in the stomach also create the required biocarbonates that enter the intestine at 8.2 pH.
There is so much more to healthy drinking water than pH. That is why I started drinking water from the natural ionizers which put Mg and Ca and other minerals into the water. Obviously the WHO agrees.
Hi Rob
Cheers for all the good info, super helpful. So I know you are an advocate for Vitev now but have you checked any of the competitors remineralising/alkalising inline filters for reverse osmosis systems? Like this one from Hydronix http://www.edenfilters.com/alinfi2.html or this one by Aptera http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-6427-aptera-alkamag-alkaline-inline-water-filter.aspx ? I find paying $250 for a single inline filter pretty insane on top of replacing all the other filters in an RO system and these seem more affordable. What are your thoughts?
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike:
I do like the Vitev products and the people that run the company. That doesn’t mean that they are the only good people around by any means. It also doesn’t mean that I will hold back on criticizing Vitev if I think they could be doing better. They don’t pay me so fair is fair.
When it comes to the price of the Vitev Remin filter, I agree with you that the price of the Remin is too high. I helped the company develop the Remin, so I can understand why the price was so high to begin with. The cost of air freighting in high quality media from all over the world is crazy and has been reflected in the price. Learning which media to use in what proportions and in what order is time consuming and expensive. Now that the company has figured that all out, I would say that it is time for Vitev to buy in large quantities and produce in long production runs. If they do those things, their cost will drop substantially and the savings should be passed on to their customers. I have had many discussions with the company to that end and they are working on it. I can tell you that I believe they have the best “formula” for remineralization but their competition won’t wait around so they better sharpen their pencil. Are you listening Vitev???
I haven’t tested any of the other filters that but I have looked at their media and their proportions and order of placement. I think both of the filters definitely offer a better solution than electric water ionizers, but I wouldn’t choose either over Vitev’s product except for the price.
Sorry I forgot to add, I’ve actually been using these ones in my RO system and they seem to be doing an ok job… http://www.truwater.com.au/replacement-water-filters/pi-alkaliser-cartridges have you tested any of the filters I’ve mentioned?
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike:
Please see the reply for your previous question.
How much t.d.s.[ minimum & maximum] is good for human body
Hi Ashok:
Good question.
The WHO recommends about 80-130 ppm of TDS primarily made up of alkali metals (Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium).
I think the actual amount of TDS is much less important than the content of the TDS.
I don’t want fluoride, mercury, lead, nitrates, chromium 6, and especially bacteria.
I do want the alkali metals and clay in parts per million won’t hurt anyone.
Hi Rob. You stated that Corosex filters can dump more minerals into the water than your kidneys can digest and result in the formation of kidney stones. I am looking into a syatem called Aqualiv that uses corosex and vortexing in their system to raise the ph. My water has a ph of 7.1 already. Is this system ok to use? Will it work well with my water? Thanks!!!
I look at it this way – daily water requirements based on a 2000 calorie diet represents only 1% of your daily recommended nutritional value – being water contains just that, a wet hydrating source – nothing more. The minerals aren’t worth mentioning as they’re far to low to yield any health benefits anyways . It’s better to RO your water and remove all the nasties then to worry about putting back in the basic zero nothing minerals anyhow. Eat well, lots of veggies/fruits .. a good balanced diet and you’ll never miss the the 4% Calcium, 16% Copper, 3% Magnesium, 4% Sodium and 1% Zinc leached from the RO process. You’ll just benefit on better health over the long haul – but if you have a remineralizing filter already – have a great day – otherwise, no worries.
Hi Jay:
I agree that people should eat well. If everyone ate consumed a proper diet, mineral deficiency and acidosis would be a thing of the past. The problem is that very few people eat proper diets (including me).
I disagree with your statement that water offers nothing more than hydration based upon the mountain of evidence that drinking RO water over the long term causes health issues. While it is important to respect everyone’s opinion, I also have to respect the proof of evidence.
It’s obvious that a Reverse Osmosis unit can’t discriminate between what is good and what is bad. It removes both. The result is that once the water comes out the other side of being filtered it has been stripped of everything! The only thing that this water is good for is for cleaning machinery .. it is known as dead or hungry water. It makes sense to add the essential trace elements and minerals back into the water. I use Himalyan salt in liquid form which adds the essential 48 trace elements and minerals which we need back into the water.
Hi Angie:
The Himalayan salt is good. Coral Calcium adds 72 trace metals and is less expensive. The good Remin filters are a lot better than either the Himalayan salt or the Coral Calcium.
What about a few drops of concentrace or Humic minerals I your glass of water, im finding this less expensive than mineral cartridge plus you know how much is actually going into the water where a mineral cartridge you dont. A bottle of concentrace lasts me forever as you only need like 2-3 drops per glass. What’s your thoughts on this Rob?
Will all do respect Rob, you are misleading people by continuously advertising the remin filter, which nobody should ever have to pay for in order to remineralize their water.
An internet search indicates that water from many natural springs is mineralized by passing through limestone (calcium carbonate, a/k/a crushed marble). Many RO systems these days use remineralizing filters that use naturally occuring crushed marble to remineralize the RO water with approximatley 30-60 mlg of calcium and magnesium (a value that the actual WHO article clearly indicates is optimal for health).
Why are pushing the remin so hard, other than the fact that you work for the company? People can buy calcite, or corosex (crushed marble) or any other RO system that uses them to remineralize their water.
I’m sorry, but your not providing CONCRETE evidence as to why the remin is better then standard crushed marble remineralization processes.
People on this board: You do not need the remin filter (unless you wan’t to spend $200 to remineralize your water). Its not magic. Look in a scientific encyclopedia (or wikipedia) and search for mineral, limestone and marble, and you will quickly see that there is not much to this whole issue.
You can thank Rob for hyper inflating his special remin filter.
And just as a follow up to my post.
I anticipate Rob will rsepond by talking about hi intimate knowledge of the remin filter creation process and how the company is exemplary in many ways etc.
I would like to make a plea to common sense here. Creating an RO system, and simply remineralizing it, IS NOT science on the magnitude of sending people to the moon. You do not need NASA to create a simple RO system that remineralizes your water.
Once again, please do some independant research as to what a mineral is, where it comes from etc.
There are several companies that create RO systems where they guaruntee a certain amount of calcium and magnesium entered back into water. Once such company even has a patent on the technology. Remin is highly over priced technology being advertised to peoploe who are easily swayed due to a lack of basic information as to what a mineral is or how water is naturally mineralized in nature.
I wouldl like to note one more thing. If you do a google search for “ro water kidney stones”, you will invariably be led to this board, or another website citing Rob’s information.
I WOULD LIKE TO ADVISE YOU THAT THE MEDICAL LITERATURE IS CLEAR THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE KIDNEY STONES ARE ADVISED TO DRINK MINERAL WATER HIGH IN CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM (exactly what corosex is). PLEASE READ THE BELOW:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9096270
I am sorry Rob, but you are whole heartedly misrepresenting and misleading people with false information. You honestly should be ashamed.
Wow, so you really blocked my comments?
Way to keep this a free and open atmosphere of discussion.
Good luck with your Remin filters.
I’ll make sure to raise awareness of the fact that you are misleading people on a different forum. One thats probably more known than your site.
Good day
Hi Alex:
Are you normally a mean person or is it just me that you are rude to?
I was away on vacation with my family while you were writing your comments.
I don’t block people on this blog unless they are self serving or rude. While each of your comments were rude, you did bring up one article on the nih website that is worth discussion.
I will address your complaints and disrespectful comments in the order that they were presented:
1) I mislead people with my continuous advertising of the Remin filter….. the last time I wrote an article was in October 2013 ….at that time, I wrote about a descaling solution that I learned about and I also wrote about an RO system that featured a remineralizing filter….before those two articles, my last article was written a year ago which was about the work of Dr. Batman…..how in the world does this track record suggest that I have been continuously advertising the remin filter? Does this sound to anyone in the world besides Alex that “I’m pushing the Remin so hard”? I have to wonder what the agenda is of the mysteriously anonymous Alex.
I don’t work for Vitev. I helped them out with their product development and I answered their customer service calls for a month about a year ago to get feedback on what the public perception was of their $399 Flo unit. I never asked for or got paid for my efforts. You would know that if you bothered to look instead of taking anonymous jabs at me. Now that makes your claim that “You can thank Rob for hyper inflating his special remin filter” seem a little silly.
2) You indicated that other companies were using crushed marble (calcium in the form of calcite) which is just as good as the Remin filter. Wow. I don’t know where to start on this one without spending a couple of hours educating you on the subject. It might be worth the effort on my part, but it is clear that you are more interested in telling everyone how much you know from a couple of things you read online rather than learning. Here are a couple of things to get you started on the trail of educating yourself in you are interested in learning:
a) Virtually everyone gets enough calcium in their diets. Why do you think that Gatorade and other electrolyte rich sport drinks don’t add calcium to their product? What most people don’t know is that according to Dr. Carolyn Dean (who knows more about magnesium that anyone I know) more than 97% of people in our society are deficient in magnesium. Why is that important? Magnesium acts as a co-factor that allows your body to utilize calcium. Think of magnesium as the lock to a door handle where calcium is the handle. No matter how much you try to turn the door handle (calcium), if you don’t unlock the door (magnesium), the handle won’t work. The point of any good remin filter is to provide magnesium plus other elements including calcium in appropriate quantities that will last over a long period of time. A good remin filter should last 10 to 25 times longer than a calcite or corosex filter and offer a lot more benefits.
b) Water ionizers work. The problem with the water ionizer industry is that it has never been able to provide legitimate reasons why water ionizers work. The nonsense you read about online is pseudoscience mumbo jumbo what can’t be verified. Water ionizer industry selling points such as microclustering and hexagonal molecules just doesn’t stand up to scientific study. The industry also focuses on pH and ORP which is ok, but they are not the reason why the water is so beneficial to human health. In 2007 a study was published in Natural Medicine (the most highly respected publication in the natural alternative industry) which showed that molecular hydrogen is a therapeutic antioxidant that selectively reduces cytotoxic oxygen radicals. What that means and why it is important would take a full article to explain but it is very important and formed the basis of hundreds of further studies (300 studies have proven that molecular hydrogen provide benefits for more than 80 human diseases). Most electric water ionizers produce molecular hydrogen (the Enagic SD501 is the best of them all as it produces 0.4ppm of molecular hydrogen whereas others produce about 0.2 ppm or less). You might want to get your calcite and corosex filters tested to see if the produce molecular hydrogen before you start making unproven claims that they are just as good because you wouldn’t want to end up looking like a fool on a public forum even as an anonymous contributor. If you want to learn what is really going on in the science of water, check out the work of Tyler Lebaron at http://www.molecularhydrogeninstitute.com
3) Remin filters are highly overpriced. I have to agree with you to some degree on this allegation. After reading my response to 2) above, it is obvious that a Remin filter is superior to the products that you speak about and actually offer better pricing over the course of a full year. I have been working on developing and testing a new generation of remin filter that imo is superior to the Remin that you talk about in your attacks. While the Remin filter that you attack me over is a great filter, the one that I’m working on has more media and a better media mix. The best part is that I expect it to be offered for under $100 in the near future from a different company than Vitev.
4) People don’t know have access to basic information & don’t know what a mineral is & and are easily swayed (I assume you mean by immoral bloggers like me…hehe). The information is out there if people choose to look for it. I think most people don’t have the time and they look to sources which they believe are credible. Some people think I’m credible, others like yours don’t. I can’t make everyone happy.
In regards to “people don’t know what a mineral is”, I guess that includes you because calcium and magnesium are not minerals…they are alkali metals (sorry for getting technical, but if you are going to disparage others, please make sure that your facts are correct).
In regards to people being easily swayed, you are snidely referring to me, but I can assure you that my impact is minimal. If I was influential, millions of people would be buying alkaline water products. The real change in the interest in alkaline water has been coming from famous people like from Mark Walhburg and P Diddy and from a small penny stock company that has spent millions of dollars buying articles from bloggers. If my instincts are correct, we will witness an explosion of awareness in the benefits of healthy water in the near future.
5) “Medical literature is clean that people who have kidney stones are advised to drink mineral water high in calcium and magnesium” Oh boy. It is statements like that which are truly misleading. You referred one study on the NIH website which gave calcium and magnesium rich water for 3 days to 20 men and 20 women susceptible to kidney stone formation. You are claiming that Medical literature makes it clear that the water is good for them based upon a single three day study of forty people. As much as I detest the FDA, thank goodness you don’t work for them.
If you do more research, you will finds all kinds of studies to the contrary as well as a couple more that support your claim. More important to me than limited scientific studies, is reading about kidney disease and the doctors who work with kidney patients. Anyone with kidney disease should consult with their physician because every person has a different set of circumstances. Kidney disease is tricky and the best person to be giving advice for an individual patient is the person in charge of their care. Advice like yours is irresponsible and potentially dangerous. Any time that I talk to or write about kidney patients, my only advice is that the patient should work with their doctor. It is fine to read something on line, but bring it to your doctor.
Alex (or whatever your real name is): My goal with this blog is to share what I have learned. I make mistakes like everyone else, but I’m never ashamed of anything I write unless it is something I have written out of anger which I end up taking down soon afterwards. Questioning ideas is a good thing. Attacking someone personally is juvenile and achieves nothing. If you are going to attack and threaten, please do your homework first because you just end up looking like an idiot otherwise.
Rob,
First, I will apologize. After re-reading my comments, which were admittedly, written in the passion of the moment, I saw that I may have been out of line in how I responded. I extend my fullest apology.
If I can continue the discussion, you wrote this in your article: “As a result, Calcite and Corosex filters can dump more minerals into the water than your kidneys can digest and result in the formation of kidney stones. Calcite and Corosex filters are obviously not the right solution for remineralizing aggressive acidic water produced by RO machines.”
Now, as you correctly stated, broad statements about kidney disease are misleading. Don’t you think what you wrote above may qualify, if not just a bit, as misleading? I mean, the study I cited, (which to be fair, was conducted using all of the rigger one would expect from a truly objective method ‘) is fairly solid in its conclusion, and seems to at least in part, contradict what you wrote above.
I agree with you about calcium and magnesium (and yes, they are both minerals, you just classified them more generally). Corosex and Calcite (crushed marble/limestone) provide both.
I guess I’m just trying to suggest that there are other products, such as Corosex and Calcite, which achieve the goal of remineralizing our water. I am sorry, but I was frustrated at the premise that I need to spend $200.00 on a filter to add minerals that are fairly easy to produce (they are self occurring in nature).
So, with that being said, can you provide some ‘real’ information as to why the remin is “light years” ahead of naturally occurring calcium and magnesium?
I have been using pure RO water for more than a decade now, and feel great about excluding Fluoride, Chlorine, Pharmaceuticals, Lead/Heavy Metals, etcetera out of my body!
I have a few questions to pose for the author of this article.
First, I have been keeping and breeding aquarium fish since I was a child, and to breed fish such as Discus, requires the use of soft/acid water (RO + peat moss for me). I have myriad of water test equipment, and am online with thousands of like-minded aquarium enthusiasts on a daily basis. The consensus with RO water is that it comes out of the RO unit at a NEUTRAL pH of 7.0 and is basically pure water with (96-99%) no contaminants. With aeration, the water becomes slightly acidic due to the acidifying properties of CO2 (but becomes stable unless organic matter is present, at which time, the water can spiral rapidly into an acidic crash because of a lack of acid buffering minerals. To prevent this, we aquarists generally either add bicarbonate, or simply use pure peat moss, as it contains the required miniscule amounts of buffering minerals to prevent an acid crash. Regular water changes maintain this quality of water, and the fish feel comfortable, and the proof is that they breed and raise vibrant, healthy young, which then go on to breed themselves.
Question: Where are you getting your information that RO water is aggressively acidic?
If it can be disproved or challenged that RO is aggressively acidic, then we don’t need the minerals in order to stabilize the water, but only to have for our bodies to absorb…..so couldn’t we just take a multivitamin once a day, and down it with a cold glass of pure RO?
Another concern is that you are quoting WHO studies from 1980?! I was around in 1980 and I shudder to think of the scientific methods which were used at that time. Computers were just in the conception phase, no email, internet, databases, everything was on paper with plenty of room for error, I would not include that study in your debate.
All that being said, I don’t disagree that putting a pinch of minerals in your RO wont hurt you, so if it makes you feel better about drinking it, go for it. I’m glad someone is doing some studying to figure this issue out, because RO has become a necessity for many people living in urban areas who are being intentionally poisoned by their own government via their drinking water. Thank you for taking the time to publish this.
Hi Paul:
I don’t know where you are getting your information about RO systems producing pH neutral (7.0 pH) because it is simply not true. RO systems typically produce pH water that ranges from 5.5 to 6.5 at the extreme. An RO system is producing 7.0 pH is not functioning properly.
Adding multivitamins to your diet may or may not add calcium and magnesium to your diet. Anyone that I know who makes a living in the RO industry takes some form of Cal/Mag to replenish Calcium and Magnesium.
The WHO article was published in 2006 or somewhere close to that time (I’m not going to bother to look it up). The studies are from bona fide research conducted under accepted scientific protocols. I’m good with that.
I’m not going to get into a discussion about our governments intentionally poisoning its citizens because it would be similar to arguing with my wife about the subject and nobody wins.
what is the procedure to add artificial minerals in ro water
Hi Venkatesh:
I don’t know how you would add artificial mineral to RO water. You can add natural minerals easily to an RO system by attaching a Remineralization filter after the membrane before the tank or after the tank before the tap.
Hi…as i know in the world alot of different water…so which is the best….i have using the ro water for quite many years….
Hi Joyce:
If someone were to give me a machine for free (disregarding price), I would take the Vitev Maxx (see http://www.vitev.com)
If you already have a RO system, I would keep your existing system and simply buy Vitev’s Remin for $149 as you already have the “clean” water part of the equation taken care of.
Rob, what are your thoughts on “Concentrace” mineral drops? Wouldn’t they be more effective for adding all the trace minerals back to RO water? I’ve been using them for a while and you only need 3-4 drops in a glass of water. The bottle cost me like $20 and has lasted me 6 months. Just want to add it also alkalizes the water slightly. Just wanted to get your thoughts?
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike:
The drops are definitely better than nothing. The fact that they don’t produce high pH tells me that they probably don’t create a lot of free hydrogen. It turns out that it is free hydrogen that creates the health benefits. If the minerals are very bio available (I haven’t researched this topic) then at the very least, they are adding essential minerals to the body.
Greetings! This is my 1st comment here so I just wanted to
give a quick shout out and say I really enjoy reading your posts.
Can you suggest any other blogs/websites/forums that deal
with the same topics? Thanks a lot!
Hi Mattie:
Thanks for the kind words. There are a few water blogs, but typically they have agendas that reach beyond sharing and education….not that that is wrong, but I would rather not be reading a sales pitch when I’m trying to learn.
Hi there! Would you mind if I share your blog with my zynga group?
There’s a lot of people that I think would really enjoy
your content. Please let me know. Many thanks
Hi Delia:
Please feel free to share or contribute as you see fit. The only agenda of the blog is to educate and share information about water.
Hi Rob! Lots of great information here. I’ve been researching water and there’s a company here in Atlanta called Avalon Water. They offer a unit that taps into your water line, and produces RO water with added minerals to it. They add coral sand, quartz, hematite, tourmaline, silver ions, zeolite, zeo-1,and hydroxy apatite to the waters for minerals. I’m confused on the safety of these minerals. Everything sounds good, but is there a way to research this or can you direct me to sources? Any opinions? I would love to forward you the files sent to me. I can’t seem to upload here. Thank you so much for your information above! Loved reading it all.
Last comment! I have a Nikken undercounter water mount. I’m not even sure all that it does, but I know it purifies, but isn’t an RO system. I want something that removes everything but still have the minerals. The company I am looking at has a stand alone unit that would be in my kitchen. I like that as I have little kids and they can easily access clean, purified water.
This is really interesting, You’re a very skilled blogger.
I have joined your feed and look forward to seeking more of
your magnificent post. Also, I’ve shared your website in my social networks!
It is obvious that apart from using this site as an educational tool, which it is, your underlying goal is to sell ionizers and other filtration products. I am extremely familiar with the world in which you operate, and I would like to point out to you, a couple of things which your readers really need to know vis: Mineralizers, re-mineralizers and the like have very limited use or abilities to get the job done properly. Unless natural minerals (and not synthetic) are used, in both “essential” and “trace” proportions, as required for normal nutrition in a normal person, there can be serious consequences, such as…..cancer patients and those on dialysis are extremely vulnerable to over or under dosing of certain minerals. Some minerals may “bind” or act as “blockers” against other functions of the endocrine system, cellular systems etc, and in fact may cause more harm than good. I would sincerely caution the use of “generic” re-mineralizing techniques, as this must be done only on a custom basis, as rationalized above. I would be very interested in exactly how these units are manufactured, and what content or components are used (generally speaking of course). Perhaps this is something you could comprehensively write about here??.
Hi Terry:
Thanks for contributing.
You say that my underlying goal is to sell water ionizers. My underlying goal is to educate people about the water and I believe almost everyone should be drinking the water based upon my own experiences, talking to thousands of people who do drink the water, and the thousands of hours of research that I have done. I don’t sell water ionizers, so if you are going in that direction, you are barking up the wrong tree.
You say mineralizers and remineralizers have very limited use. I disagree, but I’m willing to listen. Please provide your scientific evidence to back up your claim.
I agree with you that anyone on dialysis has to be careful and I have always recommended that kidney patients discuss the use of water with their physicians because every case is unique and there is nobody on earth that will have a better understanding of the issues than the patient’s doctor.
Please expand upon your comments about the dangers for cancer patients. I have read a great deal about the subject and there is a wide variation in opinions. I have personally witnessed remarkable recoveries of stage four cancers patients who begin drinking the water and taking other measures. I have also talked to far too many people who were grieving the death of loved ones from cancer who started drinking the water very late in the process, so I have no dilutions that the water is “magical cure” and I have always stated that.
Please be more specific as to which minerals may “bind” or “block” against endocrine and cellular systems so that we I can specifically research and address each one individually. Making a blanket statement that “they can do more harm than good” sounds more like something that was read on the internet rather than based upon scientific fact or clinical research. I’m happy to go down this road with you because I’m always eager to learn.
What “generic” remineralizing techniques are you referring to when you say that you would sincerely caution against their use? Please explain why because I sincerely do want to learn and share with others.
You can learn how how the units are manufactured by contacting the companies that make the units, or better still, go and visit the factories like I did.
I wish I had time to write comprehensively on the subject. The problem is that I’m crazy busy at this stage of my life in business interests that have nothing to do with water. You may have noticed that I have only written a couple of articles about the water in the past year which should give you an indication that I’m not flogging water ionizers to the unsuspecting public. I try to keep up with new scientific research such as the breakthrough on molecular hydrogen theory which I wrote about, but I just don’t have time to dedicate to the water story these days.
Researching and writing about water has always been a hobby for me. Your unspoken accusation that “I’m in it for the money” by trying to sell water ionizers is insulting, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I invite you to take over by starting up your own blog and doing your own research. When you have a few thousand hours into it, I will start reading what you have to say because the topic of water is fascinating to me and I’m always willing to learn. I may question your statements, but I will never attack you or be insulting because I understand how much work goes into this.
Rob, thanks for the information. Just moved to central Texas and were informed how terrible the water is so we rented an RO system. Don’t think it has a remineralizing cartridge and now I’m seeing all these concerns. I also don’t think I can add one because we don’t own it. Sigh. I have a 4 year old so this concerns me greatly. My question is I read that RO water not only is lacking minerals but actually leeches them out of your bones when ingested. Wondering about the truth in that and also does adding minerals back, prevent that from happening in the body? Thanks.
Hi April:
You should be able to add a Remin to your rented system. All you have to do is cut the line either before the tank or before the tap and push the two cut ends into the Remin filter. Be sure to shut the water supply off and close the valve on the top of the holding tank before cutting the line or you might get a face full of water (unfortunately speaking from experience).
Dear Rob,
I read noumbers of articles posted by you. I’m really appreciate for your proper guidence to all people .
Can we add home made kitchen chemicals in RO water for maintain water pH and better minerls like as rock salt, Sodium bi carbonate and calcium bi carbonate ?
Hi Ramchandra:
Yes, you can add minerals to the water such as rock salt, NaCO3 and CaCO3. What concerns me about adding minerals is:
1) what minerals do you add?
2) how much do you add?
3) what proportions of different minerals do you add?
4) does the concoction that you add actually produce molecular hydrogen when they react with water?
The leading edge companies in this field spend huge amounts of time and money testing various components and blends to get the best results. In the days of $4,000 electric water ionizers, the financial implications were reason enough to experiment on your own. Now that you can buy inexpensive delivery systems (see http://www.vyvwater.com for example) and affordable replacement filters, it doesn’t make sense to me to dabble on your own. A good analogy would be automobiles. While a car can cost $10,000 and up, it cost more than a billion dollars to produce the first one.
Hi Rob,
Thanks for all your information! I read them all and I learned a lot from them.
You are so knowledgable about water!
I am thinking of buying that remin filter for my RO system but
I am curious why the water become alkaline and with that high in negative ORP after using that remin filter
How about the calcium & magnesium, are they easily absorb by our body and what is the source of them?How does the remin filter work?
Thanks again!
Hi Winnie:
You might want to call Vitev as I’m sure they could answer all of your questions. In the meantime, I will do my best to help.
The water becomes alkaline when the water interacts with alkali metals. In the case of a good remin filter, the primary reaction causing alkalinity occurs when water interacts with magnesium. In a good remin filter, you will also get some alkalinity due to the presence of calcium. In lower quality remins that you see “pimped” high pH, you will get a lot of alkalinity for a short period of time from calcium but the calcium quickly degrades.
ORP is actually a measure of the ability of water to conduct electricity, but the ORP measurement is more of an indicator than a useful measure itself. The real measurement of how beneficial water is for your health is a measure of the presence of molecular hydrogen. In most cases, a very negative ORP will be associated with the presence of more molecular hydrogen. A decent analogy would be that when it is sunny outside, one might assume it is also going to be warm. In reality, it could be sunny and very cold as the “sunny” part actually only means that there are no clouds in the sky. However, most times, when it is sunny, the temperature is warmer. I hope this explanation helps.
The simplest and most effective way to absorb Ca and Mg is through eating food. Plants intake Ca and Mg from the ground and incorporate them (make them organic) in a form digestible for humans and animals (sorry for the super simple explanation, but my goal is to make this easy for as many people as possible to understand). The Ca and Mg that you get from water is inorganic and much less readily absorbed. Historically, the RO sellers would tell the public that inorganic alkali metals couldn’t be absorbed by the body, but that is not the case. Bottom line is that we should all eat foods that have a high content of magnesium in particular because Mg is so important to our health and most of us are deficient in Mg. You might want to Google foods high in Mg content if you are interested.
Thanks for your good post. would u like to know can I put Calcium and Magnesium to RO water ( within limit) without remin filter and i have a project to remineralized the RO water by manually added to RO water storage tank and after sell to market. Please let me know how to do for good product .
Hi ei ei:
When the Reverse Osmosis companies finally realized a few years ago that the “misinformed” answers that they had been offering to the public for the past few decades were no longer acceptable to the public, they began offering cheap Calcite (Calcium/Carbon based) and Corosex (Magnesium/Carbon based) filters. The products work but they typically “overdose” the media into the water and as a consequence the realistic filter life ranges from 2 to 6 weeks. The reason I’m telling you this is that I believe it is worth paying a company that knows what they are doing based upon extensive research and testing.
What about all of the water a RO unit used to make the purified water. I would like to find a system that cleans the water as well and does not use so much when doing it. They’ll use anywhere from 3 to 9 gallons of water per gallon of purified water produced.
Hi Jane:
Your comment about how much water most RO systems waste is legitimate.
Check out the Vitev Maxx (see http://www.vitev.com/alkaline-water-ionizers-p/maxx.htm). The unit includes what they call an “Optimizer” which reduces the waste water by up to 80% versus typical RO systems. My understanding is that the unit achieves both the water saving and the rapid tank refilling by putting pressure on the membrane which makes the system “believe” that it is empty, thereby forcing the system to work at peak efficiency for a short period of time rather than getting less efficient as the tank fills. I think I have it right, but it would be best to contact the company to make sure.
RO is one of the few method to remove flouride. Fouride will to far more harm to your brain and body then the mineral removed will aid you.
Hi Andrew:
I agree that fluoride is a dangerous chemical which is why I write articles about it.
Using a RO system is a reliable means of removing fluoride. To compensate for a RO system removing “everything”, people can add a Remin filters to add back the important minerals that a RO system removes. RO users can also use an alkaline pitcher (see http://www.vyvwater.com) to add back the healthy minerals
Hello Rob!…
This is the first time I read your blog and I find it very interesting.
I live in Mexico City and I’m looking for a under cabinet water filtering system.
I’m expecting to get alkaline water, since my wife has done a lot of research on this subject and she believes it has many benefits.
After reading your article, I think it should have a remineralizing system as well.
I don’t really understand the difference between a direct flow and tank system, If they do the same, I think I would like it to be direct flow to gain some space.
After the filtering system, I would like to add a tankless water heater for Tea.
I’m trying to find a solution of about $300.00 – $400.00 US.
Can you help me find my best choice?
Thank you very much in advance!
Hi Jose:
I have never been to Mexico City but I have traveled to many other places in Mexico. Unless your source water is very clean, I think you will need a Reverse Osmosis system. You can find inexpensive systems at major building material or plumbing stores which should cost about $150. You would need to add a good Remineralization filter to the system to put healthy minerals back into the water that the Reverse Osmosis system removes when it is taking the bad stuff out of the water. My preference for remineralization filters in the Remin ($149) from Vitev (see: http://www.vitev.com).
Tankless systems save space but there are too many times in my home when we need more water in a short period of time than a tankless system can provide. I would stick with a tank. You can get a smaller tank than typically comes with a system.
I heard about Kent mineral RO Which also adds minerals in ro water. Then this RO water is good for our health or not?
Hi Arun:
I have never tested any Kent products which are from India. I have used a Vitex Maxx (US$795 http://www.vitev.com) for years and it is outstanding.