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	<title>Comments on: Hard Water Scale &#8211; Answers and Solutions</title>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1926</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 15:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1926</guid>
		<description>Hi Ian:

I agree with you 100% about the fact that it is the responsibility of the dealers to educate their customers about their source water and the capabilities and limitations of their machines.  I wrote an article about the importance of choosing the right person to purchase a water ionizer from instead of focusing on the difference between the products.  A good dealer will help you with your issues and concerns, while the multitude of websites just pump out promotional material to support their products.  You can read the article here:  http://www.waterfyi.com/water-ionizers/invest-person-not-brand/

I also agree with your statement that no water ionizer provides a built-in filter that can affect hard water levels.  However, a phosphate pre-filter will do an excellent job of dealing with scaling for up to six months.  The phosphate from the filter is released into the water supply in very minute amounts just before the water enters your water ionizer.  The phosphate destabilizes the calcium in the water so that it will not form a hard scale on the plates.  Scale is still formed, but it is soft, and can be flushed away by running acidic water through the machine slowly for one minute each day. 

All plates will get scaled up in the presence of water with a high calcium content.  When it comes to scaling, the plates in an ionizer will precipitate the calcium out of the water, just like a hot water tank will cause calcium to precipitate.  The use of a phosphate filter and backwashing with the acidic water will help alleviate the situation.

You are correct that a slowing water flow is usually the sign of scaling.  The only other alternative is that the filters are near the end of their useful life, but the machines will warn you when this happens.  I have used the vinegar rinse and it is a good suggestion.  I have found that a citric acid rinse is more effective than vinegar.  Citric acid powder can be purchased very economically online and it can be mixed with water in 8:1 ratio (8 parts water and 1 part citric acid).  

Hard water scaling is a problem for a lot of machines, but if you follow the above suggestions, the problem can be controlled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian:</p>
<p>I agree with you 100% about the fact that it is the responsibility of the dealers to educate their customers about their source water and the capabilities and limitations of their machines.  I wrote an article about the importance of choosing the right person to purchase a water ionizer from instead of focusing on the difference between the products.  A good dealer will help you with your issues and concerns, while the multitude of websites just pump out promotional material to support their products.  You can read the article here:  <a href="http://www.waterfyi.com/water-ionizers/invest-person-not-brand/" rel="nofollow">http://www.waterfyi.com/water-ionizers/invest-person-not-brand/</a></p>
<p>I also agree with your statement that no water ionizer provides a built-in filter that can affect hard water levels.  However, a phosphate pre-filter will do an excellent job of dealing with scaling for up to six months.  The phosphate from the filter is released into the water supply in very minute amounts just before the water enters your water ionizer.  The phosphate destabilizes the calcium in the water so that it will not form a hard scale on the plates.  Scale is still formed, but it is soft, and can be flushed away by running acidic water through the machine slowly for one minute each day. </p>
<p>All plates will get scaled up in the presence of water with a high calcium content.  When it comes to scaling, the plates in an ionizer will precipitate the calcium out of the water, just like a hot water tank will cause calcium to precipitate.  The use of a phosphate filter and backwashing with the acidic water will help alleviate the situation.</p>
<p>You are correct that a slowing water flow is usually the sign of scaling.  The only other alternative is that the filters are near the end of their useful life, but the machines will warn you when this happens.  I have used the vinegar rinse and it is a good suggestion.  I have found that a citric acid rinse is more effective than vinegar.  Citric acid powder can be purchased very economically online and it can be mixed with water in 8:1 ratio (8 parts water and 1 part citric acid).  </p>
<p>Hard water scaling is a problem for a lot of machines, but if you follow the above suggestions, the problem can be controlled.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1926" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1926', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1926-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1926" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1926', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1926-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian Blair Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1922</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Blair Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 07:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1922</guid>
		<description>Rob, the scale problem isn&#039;t just about the scale. It&#039;s also very much about the attention owners give to their water ionizer and the instructions dealers give them. If you see a seller who says their unit &#039;never needs cleaning&#039; they are probably inexperienced. 

Hard water IS a problem with water ionizers and it has 3 aspects:
1. The filter; no water ionizer filter has any ability to affect hard water levels and
2. The plates. Even the best of cleanse systems can still accrete minerals. 
3. The internal tubes and spout. if you are ina  hard water area and you notice your flow rate reducing chances are it&#039;s not the filter blocking up: it&#039;s very likely that internal tubing is clogging up like an artery. This IS a problem because it needs a tech call or dealer repair to fix it and it WILL happen again. A good vinegar rinse every 2 weeks for people with hard water is essential no matter what your brand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, the scale problem isn&#8217;t just about the scale. It&#8217;s also very much about the attention owners give to their water ionizer and the instructions dealers give them. If you see a seller who says their unit &#8216;never needs cleaning&#8217; they are probably inexperienced. </p>
<p>Hard water IS a problem with water ionizers and it has 3 aspects:<br />
1. The filter; no water ionizer filter has any ability to affect hard water levels and<br />
2. The plates. Even the best of cleanse systems can still accrete minerals.<br />
3. The internal tubes and spout. if you are ina  hard water area and you notice your flow rate reducing chances are it&#8217;s not the filter blocking up: it&#8217;s very likely that internal tubing is clogging up like an artery. This IS a problem because it needs a tech call or dealer repair to fix it and it WILL happen again. A good vinegar rinse every 2 weeks for people with hard water is essential no matter what your brand.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1922" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1922', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1922-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1922" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1922', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1922-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 04:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1869</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the compliment.  I had to look up the word phlebotomy so I learned something....you collect blood samples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the compliment.  I had to look up the word phlebotomy so I learned something&#8230;.you collect blood samples.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1869" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1869', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1869-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1869" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1869', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1869-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1741</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 06:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1741</guid>
		<description>Hi Pamela:

Thanks for stopping by and making a comment.  I love the great work that the Enagic dealers do in spreading the word.  I just wish that Enagic would update their machines and drop their price in half so that their dealers were not at a huge disadvantage. 

I know of several machines that will do what the Enagic machines do and more....for a fraction of the price.  I&#039;m wary of the Vollara and would be a bystander for a couple of years until we see how the machine performs over time.  My fear for Vollara is that if and when the machine has earned credibility, the cost of the competitive prodcuts will be much lower than $2,000.  While there is definitely merit in being first in when it comes to MLM, I just wouldn&#039;t be first in when it comes to an unproven product when there are great alternatives.  But that&#039;s just me. 

The citric acid powder is a great cleaner of scale.  Many people use vinegar, but I have found the citric acid to be superior.  When I was in the business, we used to have to clean machines for customers.  We used an aquarium pump and hooked the pump up to the ionizing chamber and continuously ran the water through the ionizing chamber.  For those that are not in the business, the easiest way to clean scale out of a machine is to follow the following instructions:

1) remove the drain line (the outflow line)
2) place the machine over a sink and blow through the drinking line to force the water out of the ionizing chamber through the drain line
3) plug up the outflow line 
4) mix one ounce of citric acid with eight ounces of water in solution
5) turn the drinking line so that it faces the ceiling
6) pour the mixed solution into the drinking line until it starts backing up out of the drinking line (it is easier if you do this with a syring)
7) leave the solution in the machine for a couple of hours to work away at removing the scale
8) remove the plug from the drain line in the bottom of the machine
9) blow the solution out of the machine by blowing through the drinking line while the machine is in the sink 
10) run the machine with pure water for a few minutes
11) test the machine with pH drops
12) repeat if necessary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Pamela:</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by and making a comment.  I love the great work that the Enagic dealers do in spreading the word.  I just wish that Enagic would update their machines and drop their price in half so that their dealers were not at a huge disadvantage. </p>
<p>I know of several machines that will do what the Enagic machines do and more&#8230;.for a fraction of the price.  I&#8217;m wary of the Vollara and would be a bystander for a couple of years until we see how the machine performs over time.  My fear for Vollara is that if and when the machine has earned credibility, the cost of the competitive prodcuts will be much lower than $2,000.  While there is definitely merit in being first in when it comes to MLM, I just wouldn&#8217;t be first in when it comes to an unproven product when there are great alternatives.  But that&#8217;s just me. </p>
<p>The citric acid powder is a great cleaner of scale.  Many people use vinegar, but I have found the citric acid to be superior.  When I was in the business, we used to have to clean machines for customers.  We used an aquarium pump and hooked the pump up to the ionizing chamber and continuously ran the water through the ionizing chamber.  For those that are not in the business, the easiest way to clean scale out of a machine is to follow the following instructions:</p>
<p>1) remove the drain line (the outflow line)<br />
2) place the machine over a sink and blow through the drinking line to force the water out of the ionizing chamber through the drain line<br />
3) plug up the outflow line<br />
4) mix one ounce of citric acid with eight ounces of water in solution<br />
5) turn the drinking line so that it faces the ceiling<br />
6) pour the mixed solution into the drinking line until it starts backing up out of the drinking line (it is easier if you do this with a syring)<br />
7) leave the solution in the machine for a couple of hours to work away at removing the scale <img src='http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> remove the plug from the drain line in the bottom of the machine<br />
9) blow the solution out of the machine by blowing through the drinking line while the machine is in the sink<br />
10) run the machine with pure water for a few minutes<br />
11) test the machine with pH drops<br />
12) repeat if necessary</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1741" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1741', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1741-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1741" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1741', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1741-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: pamela lance</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1740</link>
		<dc:creator>pamela lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1740</guid>
		<description>Dear Rob,  I am following your blog - I also am an Enagic Dist.   For those of you who have an Enagic device, - there is a cleaning powder available (citric acid) which deals with the hard water situation.   At a cost of less than  $1 - you can clean your plates  whenever you want.  I have friends in Phoenix where they have hard water -  initially after a couple months - there was a silt that started coming out of the device and settling on the bottom of the glass.  Now after cleaning regularly - no problems.   So this is one of the good features of the device.  I too dont like the price - would love to know of another device if it is comparable but more reasonable with the same capabilities.  I love the 2.5 and 11.5!  Would like to know more about this Vollara and DDT.
Thank you, Pamela
Thank you! Pamela</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Rob,  I am following your blog &#8211; I also am an Enagic Dist.   For those of you who have an Enagic device, &#8211; there is a cleaning powder available (citric acid) which deals with the hard water situation.   At a cost of less than  $1 &#8211; you can clean your plates  whenever you want.  I have friends in Phoenix where they have hard water &#8211;  initially after a couple months &#8211; there was a silt that started coming out of the device and settling on the bottom of the glass.  Now after cleaning regularly &#8211; no problems.   So this is one of the good features of the device.  I too dont like the price &#8211; would love to know of another device if it is comparable but more reasonable with the same capabilities.  I love the 2.5 and 11.5!  Would like to know more about this Vollara and DDT.<br />
Thank you, Pamela<br />
Thank you! Pamela</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1740" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1740', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1740-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1740" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1740', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1740-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 02:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1676</guid>
		<description>Hi Gord &amp; Tricia:

Thanks for the kind words.  It is my pleasure to help.   

It is rare when I recommend using a reverse osmosis system, but your situation called for it.  With all the contaminants in your well water, the best solution was to eliminate the impurites with a RO system and then rebuild the water by adding minerals.  Once you have the RO system in place, you can choose the water ionizer that best suits your needs.  

Good luck with everything and let us know how it turns out for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gord &amp; Tricia:</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words.  It is my pleasure to help.   </p>
<p>It is rare when I recommend using a reverse osmosis system, but your situation called for it.  With all the contaminants in your well water, the best solution was to eliminate the impurites with a RO system and then rebuild the water by adding minerals.  Once you have the RO system in place, you can choose the water ionizer that best suits your needs.  </p>
<p>Good luck with everything and let us know how it turns out for you.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1676" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1676', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1676-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1676" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1676', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1676-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gord &#38; Tricia Flanders</title>
		<link>http://www.waterfyi.com/miscellaneous/hard-water-scale-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-1675</link>
		<dc:creator>Gord &#38; Tricia Flanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 02:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterfyi.com/?p=989#comment-1675</guid>
		<description>Rob:

Thanks again for all your help.  I feel much more informed and better able to make a good decision.  

Take care. 

Gord &amp; Tricia </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob:</p>
<p>Thanks again for all your help.  I feel much more informed and better able to make a good decision.  </p>
<p>Take care. </p>
<p>Gord &#038; Tricia</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1675" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1675', 'add', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1675-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1675" src="http://www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1675', 'subtract', 'www.waterfyi.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1675-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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