I have been watching with great interest the ongoing development of the strategy by the pharmaceutical industry to cast doubt of the benefits of an alkaline diet and alkaline water.
What are they afraid of? Do you think that they might be concerned that if we eat properly and hydrate adequately, the need for pharmaceutical drugs will plummet like they did in Japan before the water ionizer industry was forced to shut down advertising for two years?
This article addresses a truly pathetic internet effort to discredit alkaline water. The face of website in question is Dr. Stephen Lower. At one time in his career, this man was a legitimate professor of chemistry at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, but it has been 11 years since he was terminated from his position. While a professor is allowed to maintain a “Dr” designation for life, this man has clearly lost all sense of the basics of scientific research. His internet site, which is obviously backed by someone with a strong financial interest in seeing the awareness of the benefits of alkaline water suppressed, is based upon Lower’s (or the pharma industry’s) self-serving hypothesis that water can’t be ionized and that water ionizers are therefore a scam.
How does his site, which doesn’t sell anything (therefore no revenues) constantly maintain the top ranking for the hotly contested keywords of alkaline water and water ionizers? Riddle me that!
Lower’s website offers a couple of chemistry equations, and then he states that pure water can’t be ionized. His statement is true, but irrelevant, because there is no such thing as pure water in nature. The only pure water in the world is created through distillation. His site offers no scientific basis whatsoever, despite claiming that water ionizers don’t work based upon scientific fact. All legitimate scientific papers begin with a hypothesis, describe and perform accepted testing procedures and protocols in detail to insure unbiased data, generate and analyse data, and finally, discuss the implications of the study. Lower refuses to even test the water or the machines that produce the water, and yet he triumphantly claims that ionized water is a hoax. Shame on him!
When a Vancouver distributor for one of the ionizer companies contacted the ex-professor to invite him to a demonstration to test the results of the ionization process, the ex-professor declined the invitation. The distributor then offered to bring a machine to the ex-professor’s home, or to any lab of his choosing for a demonstration. The distributor’s goal was to provide unequivocal evidence that the alkaline water ionizing machine does change the pH and ORP of water when the water is passed through the simple process of electrolysis. The ex-professor declined the offer. The distributor then offered to have the water tested any scientific testing facility in the area, and have Dr. Lower choose the technicians and the testing equipment. The process wouldn’t cost the ex-profession anything, but he refused to take part in scientific testing.
Why would somebody who claims to be an expert on a subject and publishes their beliefs, refuse to attend demonstrations that clearly invalidate his/her claims?
In a more recent email sent by Dr. Lower to a Doctor of Natural Medicine, Dr. Lower wrote: “ I do not test processes or devices, but merely assess the scientific credibility of the explanations given for how they work”. He also stated: “I am prepared to admit the possibility that some of the dubious products I mention might be effective under the right conditions”. So, we know he won’t test his theories, and he admits that there may be merit to the fact that ionized water may work, but it doesn’t suit his needs to put those statements on his website that sits at the top of the Google search engine for the subject.
Dr. Lower publicly states on his personal website that he can do without: God, cats, Microsoft Windows, sports, most tv and popular culture etc etc etc. Probing a little further into his website, we find a list of favourite websites, which includes the blasphemous Jesus Dressup where you can dress up Jesus as a devil or in other outfits (see http://www.jesusdressup.com/ ) and the Periodic Table of Comic Books (see http://www.uky.edu/Projects/Chemcomics/index.html ) .
You may be wondering why I’m picking on a seemingly harmless 77 year old guy, who is clearly unable or unwilling to assess alkaline water or water ionizers. If it were all harmless fun, we could just have a good laugh. However, I have spoken to numerous people who have chosen to discontinue their investigation of the benefits of alkaline water because of their belief that the opinion of this charlatan has value. If I have personally spoken to dozens of people who have been influencecd by his website, imagine how many thousands of victims he has tricked with his gibberish. It disturbs me that someone like Lower can destroy the legitimate efforts of people who are attempting to learn about a natural way to improve their health.
It is hard to believe that it can get worse, but it does. A recent search of “alkaline water” on Wikipedia turned up the following statement: “However, drinking ionized water would not be expected to alter the body’s pH, and there is no evidence of any claims made by manufacturers that drinking ionized water will have a noticeable effect on the body.[2]” . Guess where the statement came from? None other that our infamous Dr. Lower (see “Lower, S. “”Ionized” and alkaline water: Snake oil on tap”). I’m not kidding! This charlatan and his gimmicky website are quoted as a source for alkaline water on Wikipedia.
Enough is enough! Surely the pharmaceutical industry can come up with something better than this farce.
It is time to take off the gloves and go after the people who pretend to know what they are talking about when it comes to ionized water. I have been made aware of articles from a nutritionist from a famous medical institition and a couple of MDs in the States that claim that ionized water can’t and won’t work. They haven’t tested the water and they have no research or ancedotal evidence to support their claims.
Anyone that wants to help me expose unsupported claims from professionals that are just sounding off for notoriety or for hidden profit are encouraged to contact me. This could get interesting!
As always, it must be stated that the contents of this article are the opinions of the author and are not intended to be offered as medical advice. Always consult with your health care provider (preferably a Naturopathic Doctor) for health issues.
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- Tags: quackwatchers
Interesting article. There are numerous testimonials from people who have transformed their health because of alkaline water. Water ionizers are recognized as a medical device in Japan. Those who have questions about how well ionized water works haven’t tried it yet themselves.
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Thanks for the comments. I have personally spoken to hundreds of people that have had their lives improved by drinking ionized water. Now that I have separated myself from the industry, I will start posting the testimonials.
In regards to ionizers being recognized as a medical device in Japan, that is true. However, the recognition is for acid water only, for use as a disinfectent.
I stripped out the self-promotional aspects of your post. If you want to advertise, you are encouraged to do so to spread the word….just not here! If I can’t make any money doing this, nobody else can either.
Rob
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Hello Rob,
In your passion for stripping yourself of industry, you paint a broad brush.
Hard to get down and do the needed thorough investigations without buying machines and taking them apart to see for yourself.
I personally know one who buys every ionizer as soon as they are on the market. He does take them apart to see for himself. One can’t argue with what one sees and tests for oneself.
As to advertisement, I can only give info from where I am. I don’t care where you get ionizers from, I am, as you are, passionate about the truth.
Believe what you want, however, as I said: All ionizers are not equal.
I’ll stick to what I know. I’m exiting your blog for now. I do education with proofs. That takes my time.
Thanks for your responses.
Patricia
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Hi Patricia:
Thank you for all of your contributions.
I agree with you that not all water ionizers are equal. My claim is that they all work, not that they are all equal. Different machines work slightly better or worse under different source water conditions. Changing the power or the number of plates does change performance in the short term. However, the stablehydrogen produced during ionization, is and always will be entirely dependent upon the mineral content of the water. Electrolysis, creates temporary conditions that people can measure with an ORP meter (a device that measures electrical charge).
I don’t buy every machine the hits the market, but I have bought 12 different brands that I have tested thoroughly. They all work.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Rob,
That is a total false statement you just made. I have a DVD in my hand this second. It is from Japan. The entire DVD is about Kangen water. They speak only Japanese but there are subtitles on it. In the DVD is shows how they use the acid water for a patient with a completely black foot and part of his ankle. Instead of amputating it like they would in the States, they used the Acid water to completely heal his foot. It was a progressive video so it shows start to finish. In the end, the man only loses a very tiny part of the tip of one toe. The patients are also drinking the alkaline water. Not only does it show it, but they also state how much the patients are to drink every day. The patients in the hospital are drinking the Kangen water! So are the elderly in Old Folks Homes. They are very honorable people and really take care of their elderly.
They show the acid water being used on bed sores the size of softballs and how it healed them. There is also news clips on here in Japanese, toting the wonders of this water.
I don’t know what the DVD in Japanese is called because it’s all in Japanese, but there is another English title over it called “International Health & Wellness Special Report. I certainly hope people can look and find this DVD. I am not giving mine up…but I do share it with a lot of people that come over here.
I love the Kangen water and it really and truly works wonders.
Don’t be fooled. All the other ionizer companies are just marketing companies. Research their certificates and read the wording then look at Enagics. You can actually look the certificate numbers up but make sure you read why they were issued and what for. Don ‘t be fooled by them people…be smarter than that. They don’t have any certificates like the WQA or ISO certification. Read the words carefully, and you will truly see how they manipulate it to make it seem as if they are comparable to Enagics. There is none. 6500 doctors….actually…over 6500 doctors in Japan have endorsed this medical device. Japan is number one for health and longevity in the world for a reason. I feel badly for the people who by the cheap imitations. They won’t last. Buyer beware..that’s for sure.
So Rob, I’m sorry buddy to burst your bubble. But there are actual videos that prove you wrong.
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Can you tell me how you know all the videos are specifically about ‘kangen’ water? I have been looking a the same videos for the last twelve years. They all came from a Japanese TV special on the water and have been floating around for years. What makes that interesting is that Kangen didn’t even exist when the videos were made.
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Hi T:
The Japanese videos are about the benefits of ionized water, not specifically about Enagic water. Please see Ian Hamilton’s comment.
The other water ionizer companies are not simply marketing companies. Some are agents for manufacturers while others manufacture the products themselves. Enagic in the USA and other countries are agents for the manufacturer. In fact, Enagic machines were originally made by Toyo. To be more specific, the Enagic SD501 was originally created as the PURE PORT II and it was given a cosmetic face lift when Enagic purchased the rights to the machine and started selling them in 2004. You may not be too happy to learn that the price of the PURE PORT II was under $1,000 before Enagic performed its magic.
It is a well known fact that Enagic paid the association of Japanese medical doctors for their endorsement. The practice is not uncommon. Do you actually think that 6,500 medical doctors in Japan have tested and sell or endorse the Kangen machine? I would love to see proof of that.
I must be one of the people that you feel badly about. I bought one of what you would call the “cheap imitations”. In fact, I bought 450 of them before I retired…and sold them. In addition, my wife has bought a much larger number of various brands of machines in her company….and sold them….most at or near her cost in order to help cancer patients who can’t afford the more expensive machines. To the best of my recollection, only 3 machines have ever been returned during the risk free trial periods, none of which had to do with the performance of the machines.
It has been almost 3 1/2 years since I started selling the Tyent machines. They do last, and so do the machines from the other companies. Tyent now offers a lifetime warranty on parts and labor, and so do the other companies.
My bubble is still fully intact…and living large in technicolor
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I appreciate Rob and his blog’s commitment to the truth and to health. This is great!
As to the medical device, the Japanese health organization has endorsed only one
ionizer out of hundreds out there, and that is the Enagic one. Enagic has the only water ionizer that is a certified medical device in Japan. It is also the only one endorsed by the Prestigious Geriatric Disease Prevention Association of Japan. The Korean ionizers are self-certified. That is, they issue certification in-house.
Also noteworthy, out of hundreds of water ionizers again, there are only two main manufacturers. Some smaller ones, but these are the main:
1.The ones from Korea and Taiwan out source their parts from a company called Emco Tech.
2. The Enagic one manufactures their own parts in house. As such, they are an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).
Enagic is the only ionizer company that is a member of the prestigious Direct Sales Association (DSA). The DSA has strick standards that very few companies qualify for.
They are the only water ionizer company that is a member of that association.
And now the latest: Enagic was just awarded the Gold Seal Certification from the Water Quality Association (WQA).
Most importantly, and why it is the Gold Standard in quality: are the only ionizer company that does not have to use minerals to make drinkable ionized water. Solely and strictly with the ionization process alone.
This is important for a number a couple of reasons: 1. The use of minerals to make alkaline water has a potential danger of making kidney/gall stones. 2. The use of stricty electrolosis
process means that the Negative Oxidation Reduction Potential (ORP) rate is steady and stronger, and stays longer. 3. consistent successful micro-clustering of the water, whereas other machines have difficulty. 4. Because of their method of ionization, they are the only ionizer company that has the ability to make 2.5 strong acid for use as a disinfectant, and 11.5 strong alkaline for use as a de-greaser (This is the only time there is use of an eloctrolysis enhancer that passes through a separate chamber in the machine). Those waters also have volumes of research documentation in Japan for successful wound care, among other things.
It is extremely important for best health of the above points. Enagic does not use minerals to ionize their drinking water. They use the more expensive, but more stable transformer to make 230 watts of power to pass through solid titanium plates. And because of this, it requires the dipping of those plates in platinum for protection.
That is a huge reason for the expense of their product. They insist on it for maximum results.
Other ionizer companies do not use enough platinum to be able to get 230 watts of power to pass through those titanium plates without breaking the plates. Or, they don’t use platinum at all, and use mesh plating to cut manufacturing costs, which again, forces them to use minerals and an on/off power source to keep those plates from breaking down.
That is why they use the “on again, off again power SMTP? system to pass the plates for ionization. The result of this system is that the ORP rate is not consistent, and failure to microcluster the water.
This is why all ionizers are not the same. Some have better results than others, some have no results. Quality matters. Homework must be more than blogging, or internet searches, because as Rob knows, many distributors are out there just trying to make a buck. I strongly recommend that the above associations be contacted for verification:
The Water Quality Association (WQA)
Geriatric Disease Prevention Association of Japan
The Japanese Health Organization
The Direct Sales Association (DSA)
Enagic
Thanks.
Patricia
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Hi Patricia:
I appreciate the time you have taken to write your post. I know from experience how time consuming the process is.
Everything you say about the Enagic machine is true except your reference to why the Enagic machine is so expensive. My best guess is that the cost to manufacture the SD501 is approximately $500, which puts it in the same ball park as other competing machnes. In regards to the materials used and the membership in the various associations, your information is correct as far as I know. The associations are all bought and paid for, but at least Enagic went through the process and paid the fees.
What you say about other machines is not necessarily true. It is very important that you are able to prove your statements about the products offered by other companies. When you call the Enagic head office, they will not verify anything about other products and they are extremely careful about making claims. The Enagic Dealers should take heed and follow suit.
To my knowledge, Enagic doesn’t provide evidence of their machines being able to provide microclustering, or that other machines are unable to do so. I could provide many more examples of unsubstantiated claims being made by Enagic Dealers, but that has been covered many times.
I like your enthusiasm for the water and for your specific brand. Keep up the great work, but be careful about making claims that you personally are unable to prove.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Rob,
I appreciate your integrity it is evident that you understand how benifits of truth over shadow personal gain, Thankyou. However I still wonder how irrelevent the good Dr. Lower’s points are. What makes his scientific explanations irrelevent. I understand the concept of pure water and it being unable to produce ionized water and agree that his point on this matter is irrelevent because our water is not pure, but how is it the body accepts this reduced water exactly? I am hopeful that we are evolving our sciences to include the proof that alternate medicine is our only alternative. I understand you may not have equations but any further explanation would inspire our belief in this seemingly amazing advancement. Thankyou
-Erik
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Hi Eric:
I’m not a scientist, but I have experienced the benefits of the water myself, and I have spoken to hundreds of people that have benefitted from the water. I will be writing a article in the near future about how and why I believe the water works so well. I have read the ex-professor’s theories, I have read Dr. Mirkin’s theories. Neither of these gentlemen have ever tried or tested the water.
Ionized water and alcohol are two of only a very limited number of fluids that pass directly through the stomach. While regular tap water or bottled water take approximately three hours to pass through the stomache, ionized water passes in a few minutes. How can I be sure of this? Try this simple test. Drink three 16 ounce glasses of tap or bottled water (48 ounces) in two minutes and take note of how you feel afterwards. You will feel bloated and uncomfortable for a significant period of time. The next day, drink 48 ounces of ionized water in two minutes. Within minutes, you will note that you don’t feel anything at all other than you might find yourself energized.
I will address what I believe to be the truth about how and why ionized water is so effective for so many people in an upcoming article. Remember, everyone that comments on the water, including the so called experts, are only guessing as science doesn’t have an answer to water yet.
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Rob,
Could you please help me! I am currently doing reasearch to buy a water ionizer as I have heard many great things about alkaline/ionized water. I was thrown for a loop when I discovered a website that spoke about the hydrogen rich water stick by Dr. H. Hayashi and I also found an article about the Aqua Liv System. I was most impressed w/ the fact the you can drink this hydrogen rich water anywhere you go and get the full benefits rather than losing some of the effects of the alkaline water when you have to bottle-on-the-go. As far as the Aqua Liv System it would appear a good buy as the entire home gets the benefits of its water vs just one tap. I may have not done enough homework, but do you think I’m going to be spending money on a scam or do you think they are the real deal?
thanks….des
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Hi Desiree:
I must have missed your comment when I was in Korea last week. I went to meet with engineers and quality assurance people, and to inspect factories. I wanted to learn from the people that are actually making the machines, as I have heard enough from the domestic marketing people.
In regards to the hydrogen sticks, I have used one a number of times. They sticks contain minerals which do increase the pH to about 8.5 and reduce the ORP to around zero (plus or minus). I think the sticks have a worthwhile function as they can be used in an emergency, or to freshen up ionized water that has been sitting for awhile. However, the sticks don’t actually ionize the water or create micro clusters and should never be substituted for a real water ionizer.
I had never heard of the Aqua Liv system, so I just checked out their website. They sell a filter system, worth about $250 and they claim their vortex system creates hexagonal water. The site provides virtually nothing in terms of statistics about performance. I don’t know enough about the technology to provide a proper review. I’m willing to learn, but in the meantime, I would go for proven technology from a well established company that can offer great results for less money. Water ionizers have a 30 year track record in Asia, and they have helped hundreds of people that I have spoken with. If you do purchase a system, I would like to hear your comments. If the company sends me a unit, I will test it and publish my unbiased opinion.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Thanks Rob for posting this. If you can believe it, I am a RN working in surgery. And when I told a couple of the Dr’s about this water, the Snake Oil guy appeared on one of our bulletin boards.
Of course the doctors all think they have all the answers. Obviously, for many people, they do not.
I am a new Enagic distributor, and am really excited about how tyhe water has changed my life, and also those with whom I have shared this water.
Let me know if you need any help.
Sincerely, Richard Anderson RN San Diego
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Hi Richard:
Great to hear that you are excited about the water and how it has made a positive impact in your life and the lives of others. I’m not a big fan of the MLM aspect of Enagic, but as long as you are spreading the word about the water, I grateful for your efforts.
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In May 2011 Enagic finally got a patented “Compensation Plan”. It took them 7 years but they finally got it. Enagic is not an MLM. It is direct sales. Please stop perpetuating a lie, Rob.
Thx.
Sincerely,
T
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Hi Trena:
OK. I wasn’t aware of their revolutionary new name for their compensation plan, so I stand corrected. I have no interest in lying to anyone.
I don’t really care what Enagic calls its compensaton plan. Why don’t they modernize their equipment and drop the price by $3,000 so that people can afford them?
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Hi Rob,
Would you ask BMW to drop their prices also so everyone can afford them? Are you serious? You get what you pay for. Enagic does make top of the line products.
Modernize their equipment? Their equipment will outlast everyone elses and they are the number one sellers for a reason. There is no need to change their internal parts at all. They are built to last. I love the way the outside looks too.
They don’t need to change?
Sincerely,
T
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Hi Trena:
You have suggested that you always get what you pay for. I can see your point of view because a purchaser buys on perceived value. You are happy with the fact that your machine for $4,000. Nobody has the right to question your judgement. The fact that so many people are willing to spend $4,000 on a water ionizer that is based upon 15 year old technology is a testament to the brilliant marketing job done by Enagic.
You mentioned the BMW automobile in your comments. Would you be happy buying a brand new BMW that was built to the exact standards of their cars 15 years ago? Would you agree that BMW has made a multitude of improvements to their cars in the last 15 years? Now ask yourself what improvements Enagic has made to the Pure Port II/SD501 in the last 15 years. If you believe that their have been no technological improvements in 15 years in the industry then you really are drinking the Enagic “Kool Aid”.
I can debate this topic endlessly based upon facts, rather than sales pitch. I have to wonder if you are actually an Enagic customer, or if you are really just a certain IonWays dealer who likes to play games on this blog.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hey Rob.
Great to see someone started out a blog regarding this subject.
About Dr Lower, I wonder if you have seen the replies which were answered to his most criticized statmements? I have seen them posted on two different pages and it is a pleasant read
I Live in Sweden and have started to drink this water since aug ’09 and have never had a cold or allergies since then. At first even I was sceptic of cource when I first heard about it
Not until a few months later I began to read a bunch of articles regarding why this water works… and I must say it is total logical.
I have started a topic in a well visited forum in my country asking how much they know about ionized water in general. And it is terrifying to know how little knowledge they hold about water and its structures and most are even strongly for distilled water to be the purest and healthiest water to drink!?! That is sooooo 70s when pure water was popular, but now it is 2010 and it is still being sold world wide!
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Hi Daniel:
Welcome to the blog. Nice to see a response from Sweden, which I’m told is a beautiful country.
The water is slowly gaining a foothold in Europe, just like it is in North America.
I have had enough of Stephen Lower. Myself and others have called him out a number of times and he has admitted that he won’t try the water or test it, but he does admit that it probably works. So much for being a scientist.
Distilled water has its place, just not for drinking unless there is no alternative such as in a disaster situation. When raw sewage is being dumped into drinking water supplies, distilled water will save your life.
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Learn more about Kangen Water and the Alkaline Diet.
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Hi Herbert:
Enjoy the free advertising. You may have a tough time selling water ionizers for $3,980 to people who read this blog, so this might not be the best place to advertise. However, free is free.
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Hello again Rob!
Hehe, the funniset thing happend as when I saw my earlier comment in here also have been posted on another vendor site selling ionized water.
Now to my main purpose… you should really create a new category something called “Debunkers Debunked” and list all the sites you come across which debunks ionized alkaline water. I have found a few more which have a quite convincing text which may very well confuse those who are new to this water. As you already know.
But there is one study I found which I have not found any real comments on, is the study on newborn rats given ionized alkaline water during 15 days which may give them a marked myocardiac necrosis and fibrosis than the group drinking tap water. The study says it is caused by a degeneration of myosin (a needed protein) that affects the contraction of heart muscle. And also showed a leakage of myocardinac creatine kinase (an enzyme in muscle, brain and other tissues).
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ Can tell you more about these medical terms .
This study was written 1998 on pubmed by Toshi Watanabes
P.S
Is it not possible to comment your comment on my first comment, instead of posting a new comment to comment your comment? :p
What I mean is, the reply link does not work for me, or is it only for you (admin) to use?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hi Daniel:
Nice to see you back on the blog.
The battle against the quackwatch/debunkers will never end, but I will keep doing what I do. I have been working on an a new article about the validity of water ionizers which should be up on the blog soon.
I don’t have a comment on the small study on newborn rats. What I do know is that ionized water has been around for 30 years and it has helped millions of people. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a claim made against the water legitimate or otherwise. Now there is a thought for the debunkers and their pharma backers….just launch a lawsuit. I wouldn’t put it past them.
The
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Hi, Daniel, ah, the rats, they just keep popping up! I’m adding a link to my reply to an article that apepared ina now defunct health magazine in Australia.
http://www.alkaway.com.au/downloads/Informed Response 26Nov09.doc
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Hi Theresa:
Thanks for your comments. I know how much effort it takes to make comments, so I appreciate what you have contributed.
If people think that a product is worth a certain amount, then it is. For example, I would pay $100,000 for a water ionizer if there was not other way to get one.
I believe that the Enagic dealers are the best thing that ever happened to this industry. However, I know the prices of Enagic machines could and should be a lot lower. I also know that the things that some Enagic dealers sometimes say about their competition is not true, but that doesn’t mean that every Enagic dealer behaves that way. My greatest wish for the water ionizer industry right now would be for Enagic to modernize their lineup and sell the machines for $1,495. That price would allow for good profits for the company to maintain the business so that it could advertise and stick around for the long run, and it would allow the dealers to be well compensated for their hard work. That way, the machines would be affordable to many more people. The real goal should be to get as many people as possible to be healthy.
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I agree that the price of the SD501 is more than some people can afford, but many people don’t realize that Enagic does offer cheaper machines (with smaller plates/less platinim & lower wattages) that are competitively priced. My brother is a college student & couldn’t afford the SD501, so he uses the Sunus unit that only costs $1280. I think this unit is a good alternative for those on a lower budget.
Theresa
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Hi Theresa:
I think most people are aware that Enagic offers less expensive machines. Unfortunately, it is human nature to want the best, especially when it comes to our health. I have found that many of the Sunus sales are to people who want to become Enagic dealers and purchase the Sunus as the least expensive way to join the MLM system. I have tested the Sunus and I think that there are much superior machines available in a similar price range. All the same, the Sunus works, just like all the other machines out there.
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I’m curious as to what machines you are referring to that are the same price as the Sunus – most of the ones I’ve seen are around $2000. My experience has been that most are attracted to Enagic first for the health benefits and then get excited about the business opportunity. I’m sure there are some who are looking for the business, but they usually go for the SD501 because the stronger wattage & larger surface area makes this water much more stable. The water produced by the Sunus is weaker and should be consumed straight from the machine because it won’t last very long if given away in jugs. Given that we market by sharing water and performing demonstrations, the Sunus unit would not be a good choice for someone interested in the business. Besides, there are options to become a distributor without purchasing a unit and the commission checks are simply held until enough money has been earned to purchase a unit. Once they have earned their unit, then they begin receiving the commission checks. Like you mentioned before, the other companies are usually selling their products to people who were first introduced to Enagic. I think if they could market their product by demonstrating and giving away water, they would do so rather than focusing on putting Enagic down to steal their customers! Kangen machines usually end up selling themselves because people experience the results first hand & want one in their own home. On the other hand, the other companies put most of their money into creative marketing designed to convince consumers their machine will do the same thing. Why does everyone compare to Enagic if they aren’t the gold standard of the industry?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hi Theresa;
Heh, my wife will be getting jealous if we keep meeting like this…I’m kidding!
The actual price of some of the leading machines is a lot less than you see on line. My current favourite is the EOS Platinum at $1,695 but the units were recently on sale in the States for $1,395. The price is back up to $1,695, but dealers offer filters etc to entice customers and good hard negotiation will likely produce better prices. Tyent has introduced the IonQuench which they sell for $1,440 and the dealers offer incentives. Tyent has now picked up the rights to KYK and they dealers are offering the machine at $1,525 plus incentives. All of the above machines are good 7 plate machines with the latest technology. The competition is heating up and the consumers win….as my kids would say….kewl
I agree with you that Enagic does it best when it comes to marketing. Getting people to try the water is the most effective sales technique possible because the water actually works. The great thing about Enagic is that the reps actually take the product to the street. The companies that sell on line out of their home office can make very good money, but they are not reaching out to anyone.
I love your use of the words “creative marketing”. I assume you mean the creative license that they take with their “unbiased” reviews etc. Enagic itself has by far the most “real” creative marketing.
Everyone compares themselves to Enagic for two reasons and neither have anything to do with Enagic being the “gold standard”. First off, Enagic creates all the awareness, so others must do the comparison to draw the attention of consumers who are looking for a less expensive alternative that still produce good results. Second, Enagic is such an easy target. The entire concept of paying $1,500 or $2,000 for a machine that makes water seems ludicrous to most people when they can get water for free from their tap. Enagic machines are $4,000 which makes them seem even more ridiculous. Of course the water is different, but unless people are actually sick, they tend to choose to put their money towards other things.
I like the way that you support your company. You are proud to be an Enagic rep and that is good. You don’t slam the competition and that is good. You don’t make a bunch of false statements and that is good. Keep up the good work.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Do you know Rob that the Enagic SD501 can be taken apart so the plates can be deep cleaned. The build up of calcium on Ionizers is the biggest danger that will stop the ionization process. Enagic machines are the only ionizers on the market that can be taken apart and deep cleaned. No other ionizer can do this. When the buildup gets to be too much on the other ionizers and they stop ionizing, new plates must be bought at a hefty price. The Enagic Ionizers can be taken apart and deep cleaned.
The old saying, “You get what you pay for”, is a very true statement. This in itself makes it worthwhile to put up extra money in the beginning. I would have thought you would have known this fact beforehand and posted it for all to see? There are many reasons why the Enagic products are more expensive, but they are well worth the extra dollars. Their machine will outlast any of the other machines.
I strongly urge anyone looking to buy an ionizer go to the manufacturer of the ionizers. Do some of your own research. Would you go Doctor shopping just to get the cheapest doctor? Or would you want the best doctor out there?
No….I am not a distributor of Enagic products, but I did do my research and bought the SD501. My friend bought the KYK model. It’s only been 4 months, but she is very unhappy with her machine and wishes she had bought the Enagic product.
I urge everyone out there to do your own thorough research. Don’t just get online because anyone can write anything.
T
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Hi Trena:
To answer your questions and statements:
Yes…everybody knows that
Your statement about the need to buy new plates for other ionizers when calcium builds up is not true. I have cleaned the plates for hundreds of machines over the years from various brands. I think that only one person ever had to buy new plates and the cost was about $200 including the labor for the change over. Since the customer paid $1,500 for their machine, they still ended up being out of pocket $1,700 after two years. Once they had their plates changed, they followed the cleaning instructions and never had another problem. Enagic and most other companies now offer cleaning cartridge which are basically cartridges filled with citric acid. Customers pop them into their machine and run them for awhile and voila….just like new. There are much less expensive ways of cleaning a machine, but most people opt for the nominal cost of a cleaning filter.
Value is in the eye of the beholder. If someone believes that $3,980 is a fair price to pay for the benefits one receives from an Enagic SD501, then more power to them. If there was only one water ionizer on the planet, I would pay $100,000 for it because of the benefits I receive from the water. However, anyone can purchase great electric water ionizers for $1,500. People can also receive all the same health benefits from antioxidant filters (non-electric water ionizers) for $329 which also remove most of the contaminants from the water including fluoride and chloramines (which the Enagic SD501 does not do).
I’m happy that you are satisfied with your Enagic. If your friend isn’t happy with her KYK, she should contact Tyent USA (or whoever they have designated as their representative). The service manager (Jim) at Tyent has always gone out of his way to help people.
Yup…anyone can write anything…even me. I don’t have any grudge with Enagic. In fact, I think they did a great job for years of spreading the word. I don’t like the fact they threatened to suit me over my blog. Fortunately, they immediately backed off when I indicated that I would write ongoing detailed reports of all of the inaccuracies broadcast by specific individuals from the weekly conference calls I would be listening to for the two years that it took to get me to court. They really didn’t like the fact that I said I would take the comments down if they won in court, but I would then set up new sites in 100 different countries where they would find it virtually impossible to take me to court. Having the truth on your side and nothing to lose is a powerful combination!
Enagic people are not bad people. My only issue is with the inaccurate information that some of the sales people spread to support their ridiculously high prices.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hi Rob,
And now the truth comes out. Sounds like you do hold a grudge by everything you just said. “Call Jim”, sounds like you have a personal relationship with Tyent.
I am one of those people who like to purchase the best out there that I can possibly afford. This would also include my car, air conditioning, windows etc. The ionizer is for my health though and my childrens’ health. This is the most important investment I could have bought for us. And I am one of those people where when it comes to health, I am not going to compromise and buy a ‘cheaper’ machine. I know full well and so do you, that Enagic products are top of the line. Yes, they do cost more if you choose to purchase the SD501.
I won’t shop around and get the cheaper doctor and I wouldn’t advise anyone to shop around just to get the cheaper product. If you are putting your money out, then buy the best. You want it to last a lifetime. Enagic products have been around the longest. The Japanese have done all the extensive research themselves. They didn’t just hop on board and start making cheap ionizers.
One technician makes one machine from start to finish. Every piece of that machine comes right from the factory.
Every single other cheaply made machine gets the cheapest parts it can and puts it together. Most of the machines have the same brand, EMCO making it’s parts.
People can make up their own mind. But for goodness sake people, please do your own research and find out the truth before you invest any of your hard earned money. It is well worth it. I know, I did it.
Sincerely,
T
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Hi Trena:
The truth is that the people at Tyent USA despise me because of several unflattering articles that I have written about their business tactics and ethics. In fact, they had their lawyer send me letter threatening a lawsuite. I told them to go ahead and suit me as I would have a field day exposing all of their dirty laundry. Regardless of what I think about the behavior of the ownership of the company, I have always maintained that they make good machines and they honor their warranty. I have also written in the past that their warranty guy “Jim” is top notch. I just report facts without getting emotionally involved.
I see that you have been drinking the Enagic “cool aid”. They make a decent machine, but it is not the best machine by any stretch of the imagination no matter how many times they repeat the story to their distributors and customers.
Enagic has only been selling water ionizers since 2004. Bob McCauley introduced the Emco (Jupiter) machines in the USA in 1996. Perhaps you are are referring to the fact that Mr. Ichiro purchase the rights to the Pure Port II (one of 19 water ionizer machines produced by the Toyo corporation) on behalf of his new MLM company in 2001 as a basis of your statement about the machine being around the longest.
The last few statements that you make indicate that you are definitely reading the company “line”. This is OK if it works for you. I have no issue with people buying Enagic machines because they work….I do have issue with dealers making false claims and making up stories to support the massively over inflated price of the SD501.
Based upon your comments in your posts, I doubt that you did your own independent research on the matter of electric water ionizers. By that, I mean testing other machines and talking to owners of other machines. Regardless, congratulations on your purchase as you are now drinking ionized water and you will undoubtedly reap the health benefits.
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Hi Rob,
Great article, nice to see some grounded information on a subject for which everyone seems to have “all the answers.”
I do like the concept of the Aqualiv, but was wondering if you’d had a chance to look back into it yet. I ordered a Hydrogen stick to check it out, particularly as an inexpensive way to get started on improving water quality.
This isn’t a commercial for these products, lol, I just don’t want to spend over $2,000 without confidence.
Appreciate all the hard work,
Todd
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hi Todd:
I have tested the hydrogen sticks and I’m wary of them. The manufacturers won’t tell us what is in them and the water tastes strange if it sits for awhile. I’m not against the hydrogen process itself, I just don’t like the unknown.
I’m currently testing an actual hydrogen machine that I really like so far. It is too early to tell as I just got the machine, but the early results are good. The machine comes with a great brochure that explains how it works, and what is in the filter. It also details the many contaminants the machine eliminates or reduces from the source water including chlorine, fluoride, VOCs, lead, mercury and more. The hydrogen machine produces water quickly with a pH or about 9.5 and an ORP of about -200. I want to see how the unit stands up over time in terms of producing pH and negative ORP before I would give it the thumbs up. If the hydrogen machine continues to perform as it has so far, I see it as having the potential to be a breakthrough product in the industry because it will cost a fraction of the price of all the water ionizers that are currently available. Let’s see….alkaline water that is ideal for health benefits and hydration that removes the nasty stuff from the source water…at a low price. Yup, I will be a huge fan if it works. In the meantime, I will continue to do more testing while I’m waiting for the company to provide additional independent test results from a certified lab that I have requested.
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Hello Rob,
Great site. Do you have any updates on this machine for us? it seemed like it had some potential. personally i would love to know the name of it so I can do my own dilligence on it. Thanks for all the work you do on this subject for those learning the ropes.
we look forward to hearing the update!
Newfie
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Hi Mike:
I posted an update yesterday on the electric water ionizer industry. I’m not sure if you are asking about a specific machine or not.
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Hey Rob, thanks for responding. directly above my initial question in the paragraph above you mentioned this
“I’m currently testing an actual hydrogen machine that I really like so far. It is too early to tell as I just got the machine, but the early results are good. The machine comes with a great brochure that explains how it works, and what is in the filter.”
this one was the one I was referring to! Did you get any positive results on this machine and if so can you share them with us?
What do you think of the Chanson machine Robert Young pimps on his site? Every now and again he has it on sale for 1400 bucks which is a fair bit off his regular price and I was thinking of buying that one the next time it goes on sale.
Cheers!
Newfie
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Hi Mike:
The unit you are referring to is called the Alkastream. I first started testing it about 6 months ago. I really liked the results, but the unit and the filter had a lot of problems. Ian Hamilton, the owner of the company asked me to help him. I decided to help because of my respect for the man, and because the new technology held so much promise at a price that people could afford. After months of testing and retesting, and me driving Ian crazy with all the changes that I recommended, I think Ian now has a great machine. I believe they made 11 changes to the machine and the filter plus 3 more changes to the media in the filter.
I’m amazed by the response of Ian and his people. When I worked in the electric water industry, I asked Tyent to make a couple of changes that would make their product better and they totally ignored my ideas. Instead, they kept bringing out a new model every 6 to 12 months without making the units any better.
The story of how Robert Young became involved with Chanson is rather sordid and I would rather not go into the details. It makes me sick to my stomach to see Chanson benefit from the way that the Robert Young’s endorsement took place. However, I’m a fan of Robert Young’s work, and I don’t want to distract him from his efforts by drawing attention to the matter. As far as the machine itself goes, it is a decent machine, which makes it like many others. In regards to price, you can purchase the machine for less (see one of my recent articles).
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Thanks Rob!
Have you done a side by side comparison to the Alkastream and the chason or any of the other 1000 dollar plus machines and have you any numbers to share with us?
Obviously if we can get the same quality out of this filter as opposed to buying a 1-2K machine this is the way to go but if it is significantly better results yeilded by a proper ionizer then it might be better off to get the ionizer.
Looking to hear your thoughts or hearing about your tests on it.
Cheers!
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Hi Mike:
I did side by side comparisons of the Alkastream to the Chanson VS70, Tyent 7070 Turbo, EOS Platinum, and the Enagic SD501 in my lab. I used the same source water and the same testing equipment. I used the same water temperature and did the tests at the same time. I also ran the tests several times over different days to see if the results varied as the source water changed. People think that the water coming out of their tap is always the same but the reality is that the source water is changing all the time.
I set the power level for each of the electric water ionizers at their respective “drinking” water levels as prescribed by the manufacturer of each machine. The Alkastream doesn’t use electricity, so I ran the water flow at one litre per minute as prescibed by the manufacturer.
Every machine performed really well. The results, as measured by pH and ORP were remarkably similar and consistent. The range in pH values only varied by 0.07 across all the machines and the ORP varied by less than 30 points across all the machines. If I had tinkered with the power settings on the sub levels, as opposed to pressing the major setting buttons, I expect that I could have tightened up the range even more.
I didn’t do a statistical analysis, but my guess would be that there was little if any statistical difference between the results of any of the machines. The results are great news in my opinion. The machines all performed well as advertised. I believe anyone can feel confident in buying any of the machines, including the Alkastream.
The electric water ionizers offere the ability to generate acidic water, or very high pH and very low ORP levels. These additional qualities will be appreciated by people who want to use the acidic water on their skin, or for cleaning solutions. The high pH levels allow for faster removal of pesticides from fruit and vegetables when they are soaked in the water.
The antioxidant filters allow for much superior removal of contaminants from the source water.
My understanding is that drinking water is used 30 times more than acidic or high pH water by the average consumer of electric water ionizers. Choosing which machine to buy really depends upon a person’s needs. I replaced my electric water ionizer with an Alkastream in my home office several months ago and have not noticed any detectable difference in terms of changes to my health.
The pH and ORP results were remarkably similar and consistent across the board. Every
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Oh and one other point, if this machine is simply a filter that ads elements like magnesium, logically then that filter with use will no longer add elements and you will need to change it. Any idea how much these filters will last under normal use and what it will cost to replace a filter?
This seems like the best way for a neub to stick his or her toe in the water literally and test out the whole concept but I am curious what the ongoing costs are for it compared to a proper ionizer!
Cheers and great work!
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Hey Rob,
One last question before I pull the chord and get one of these things. On the Alkastream, you have to swap out teh filter every 6 months or so so that is 100 bucks + every 6 months so in a few years you are out the price of one of the ionizers. Are there any reoccuring charges for the ionizers? Once you drop 1500 or whatever for the ionizer is that it in terms of no more to pay? Are there any filters or parts that need regular replacing on them?
Thanks!
Mike
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One last last question! hehe (Sorry Rob!) I have a hose type faucet in the kitchen that is removeable. There is no way to fit the end of the Alkastream on to it. Is there a way you can plumb it off the water line directly and put a tube up from under the sink right into the counter top with it? Do you need any special attachments for that? I vaguely recall seeing something saying you need special gear from the company to do that.
Thanks
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Hi Mike:
I have seen Alkastream’s plans for their new “under counter” cap that will allow for an under sink installation. I believe that they will have the new “kit” ready in the near future, as they were talking about an April or May delivery. My past experience with all the manufacturers would lead me to believe that later is more likely than sooner when it comes to new product introductions.
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Hi Mike:
Is this the last question or the last-last question…just teasin’ ya!
It typically costs about $200 per year for filters for most electric water ionizers despite what they advertise. The unfortunate part of electric water ionizer filters is that they are not designed to remove much in the way of contaminants from the water. Therefore, the cost is usually another $100 or more per year. This may sound like a lot of money but would you rather “buy a filter, or be a filter”?
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Hey Rob,
Is the new “under counter”" Alkastreram a whole new device entirely or just a simple addition to the regular pre existing filter? IE is the new under counter system filter system going to be the exact same filter with just a new attachment or is it going to be a whole new and improved contraption? I heard that it is going to have a faucet instead of just the filter with the spigot is that right? I was told you can buy a T joint at Lowes for a few bucks and attach it yourself if you wanted and get the same effect as the new one is probably going to be more pricey.
If it is going to be an entirely new rig with a faucet on the top side as opposed to a filter then it might be worth holding out and get it. If it is the same old filter on your sink with just an attachment below I might just buy it and get the T valve from Lowes and be done with it. Are you hearing this alkastream is going to be the same filter with an attachment or a whole new machine that would make it worth waiting for?
Cheers~!
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Hi Mike:
Ian Hamilton tells me that they will be producing a new cap for their under counter units, which will easily adapt to their existing unit. The cap will allow a water line to be attached in place of the drinking rod, which is not possible for their above counter unit. The water line can then be attached to a tap. He also indicated that they would be including a high quality tap (which I have seen), and they will provide attachments to hook up to the water supply line under the sink. The entire kit will be priced at $49.99 including the cap, the tap, and the connector, and the extra hose. I don’t know how Ian was able to price the entire kit at such a low price, as the tap looks to worth at least that much, but I’m not going to complain.
I will ask Ian what he has planned for people that have their own tap and just want the under counter cap so they can make the connection.
You are absolutely correct that the existing unit can be hooked up to the water supply line under the counter. It is as simple as purchasing an angle stop valve or similar under counter diverter attachment from Lowes or Home Depot etc. Once you are able to divert the water, you can run the hose directly to a tap, or through a hole in the counter. You could also store the unit under the counter and place it on top of the counter each time you use it because the unit is small and light in weight.
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New line of question here. I noted above you said you had issue with how Robert Young hooked up with Chanson. I bet there is a story there but my question for you and your readers is what does the world think of the guy?
I just read his PH miracle book, looked at a ton of videos on line and was interested in picking up a few of his PHroducts I guess you would say but the PHrice of them is PHretty rediculous. You can add a 0 to the price of most of the competition’s non young approved PHroducts! hehe
Anyway, I wanted to know has anyone in here that are very health conscious and interested in alkaline lifestyles, are you eating his PH salts like it is going out of style, living only on avocadoes and grass shavings from the lawn mower and using his sub lingual stuff that all just seems to incredibly expensive? Even compared to many of the other non traditional healing institutes like oasis of hope, gerson and the rest his retreats are twice as expensive as is are most of his products so i am curious are they worth the price tag he is pushing or is it all clever marketing with Tony Robbins and the like to pocket all the cash they can milk out of sick people?
Anyone using any of his products in conjunction with alkalizing water machines etc and getting any results?
Thanks all! This subject is really like peeling back the layers of an onion! Lots of into out there if you search for it.
Thanks.
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Hi Mike:
You like stirring it up….reminds me of me. Your funny message made me laupH.
I respect the work of Robert Young. I personally know a number of people who have benefitted greatly from his advice. He is dedicated to his trade adn the world is a better place for it. I have never had the pleasure of meeting the man, but I have had a couple of conversations with him and I believe him to be sincere.
When it comes to Robert Young and business, I’m not a fan. Based upon the research I have done on his business activities, I believe very strongly that his endoresements are bought. He certainly seems to lose his scientific objectivity when it comes to reporting on those products. My guess is that he bows to commercialism as a way of mainting his research and his lifestyle (avocado ranches are expensive).
I like Robert Young and I would not want to discourage his work. I don’t see how it would benefit anyone if I blew the whistle on the Chanson endorsement. I think people already know what I think about the guy that runs Chanson, so throwing gas on the fire serves no useful purpose.
Robert Young is no worse and actually a whole lot more useful to the world than Dr. Mercola or David Wolfe. At least Robert Young contributes something besides a never ending sales pitch.
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Hey Rob, Newfie here again. Another question for you. have you heard of this Lotus system for cleaning pesticides out of fruit and vegge and cleaning your counters and floors and the like? How does this differ from an alkalizing machine? I wound up buying the alkastream after and I use it all the time. I saw this on line not too long ago and was curious as it was supposed to kill all pesticides from fruit and vegge. Any thoughts on this? for 200 bucks it seems to be pretty affordable. It says it comes with filters so I have no idea how many you need or how long they are good for. Thanks as always!
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Hi
I must ask you Rob about the Hydrogen mashine…. What is this and what does it mean by hydrogen rich water? I see this statement is kinda mixed which also appears when describing ionized water, but I have not find any real explanation to what it actually means….
I know Ionized water splits the water into two streams, one with more Hydroxide ions (OH-) and the otther with more Hydrogen ions (H+), a hydrogen with a missing electron which is actually a proton.
Allthough I haven´t found any explanation still I suspect the terms of hydrogen rich water is actually the hydroxide ion – one oxygen and one hydrogen with an extra electron?
And now I see you mention the hydrogen machine.
Could you please explain in simple terms what the meaning of hydrogen water really is and if there are any differences from ionized alkaline water? To me they are the same but why the name of hydrogen water…. beats out of me
/Thanks
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Hi Dan:
I’m just learning about hydrogen machines myself. When Mary and I were in Korea earlier this year visiting manufacturing facilities and talking to engineers, everyone was introducing us to the hydrogen machines. To be honest, we were so focused on the water ionizers that we didn’t give the hydrogen machines much attention. The Korean people are so polite that they didn’t want to push. I wish we had spent more time asking questions and learning about the hydrogen machines.
Here is a very brief snapshot of what I know, or at least what I think I know.
Similarities between a water ionizer and a hydrogen machine:
Hydrogen machines actually produce hydroxyl ions (OH-) even though they are referred to a hydrogen. These are the same hydroxyl ions that water ionizers produce. The water produced is alkaline (a pH above 7.0) which is a measure of the availability of hydrogen ions (H+) or hydroxyl ions (OH-). When there are more H+ ions, the water is acidic, and when there are more OH- ions, the water is alkaline.
The alkaline water produced by both machines carries a negative charge that can actually be measured in millivolts. The measurement of the millivolts is commonly referred to as ORP or Oxidation Reduction Potential. I won’t get into all the theory of ORP, but lets just say for now that the ORP helps reduce the acidic buildup in our bodies
Differences between a water ionizer and a hydrogen machine:
Water ionizers run water across electically charged plates, which means they require electricity. A water ionizer actually separates the source water into two streams of water, one with extra hydroxyl ions (OH-) which is alklaine water, and another with hydrogen ions (H+) which is acidic water. A hydrogen machine doesn’t use electricity at all. A hydrogen machine produces alkaline water only by running water though a filter that is rich in positively charged cations such as magnesium.
Advantages of water ionizers:ul>
Powerful water ionizers definitely have advantages such as the ability to produce acidic water that can be used as an effective astringent on the skin, or as a disinfectant in a stronger form. Powerful water ionizers can also produce very high pH alkaline water which will remove petrochemicals from from fruit and vegetables by soaking them in the water for 20 to 30 minutes. Hydrogen machines won’t do this.
Advantages of hydrogen machines:
Hydrogen machines will produce drinking water that will provide all the health benefits of a water ionizer, which is by far the most important reason why we purchase these machines, and they will do it at
a fraction of the cost of a water ionizer.
The hydrogen machine that I’m testing also claims to act as an excellent purifier of the contaminants in the source water. The literature offers independent lab test results that indicate the filter removes fluoride, chlorine, VOC’s, lead, mercury and other substances. If that is true, then you don’t have to add a pre-filter system, which every water ionizer should have. I’m trying to decide if I should spend the money to have the results of the machine tested myself. I have been told the test will cost me about $1,000. Since I don’t make any money anymore, I’m hesitant to spend the money. If anybody out there can provide independent test results from a cerified lab, I’m sure I could get the company to send you a free test machine.
The hydrogen machines have other advantages. The won’t get scaled up like a water ionizer in hard water conditions because the calcium in the water won’t precipitate out of the water during the ionization process like it does with a water ionizer. The hydrogen machine is easy to install and is much smaller than a water ionizer which means it doesn’t take up much counter space. One final advantage of a water ionizer is that very little can go wrong with it because it doesn’t have an expensive SMPS or an expensive ionization chamber which can get scaled up and it doesn’t have a sensitive keypad.
As you can see, I’m excited about hydrogen machines because they are affordable to almost everyone. If the machines do what they claim to do over the long term, and by that I mean provide consistent pH and ORP output levels and remove the contaminants from the source water, then I can see my goal of a water machine in every home becoming a reality a lot sooner. I just need to recruit Bill Clinton to my non-profit cause as we would be off to the races.
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Thank you for elaborating this, allthough I am familiar with regular ionizers but it was still good the way you compared! It does however sound very similiar between them two.
But it also sounds more like the hydrogen machine is just an advanced filter which adds alkaline minerals… inside a machine. Do you think the filter with the positively charged minerals will be enough to also reconstruct the water molecules so the polarization will make them less clustered together – or for short will the water be micro clustered like in an ionizer?
/Thanks
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Hi Dan:
There are a lot of similarities between the two systems, especially the most important issues which are alkaline pH and ORP output.
You are correct that the hydrogen machine is essentially an advanced filter which add minerals that make the water become alkaline.
The following is a paragraph from a research report that I have been reading about the hydrogen machine:
“The newer non-electric systems just hitting the market use magnesium as their ionizing agent. When immersed in water, magnesium gives off negative hydrogen ions just like an electronic water ionizer. The water isn’t split like an electronic system into two streams, but it’s virtually identical in all other ways; pH, ORP, microclustering and antioxidant abilities”
I can’t confirm the validity of the claims about microclustering for the hydrogen machine, but then again, I can’t confirm the validy of the same claims made about water ionizers. I have read the claims many times, but I have to admit I have never read an actual research paper about the claims.
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Do the test and find out and you can do it by using a tea bag and see how micro clustered the water is if it can make tea at room temperature.
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Hi Rob
Thanks for your effort in getting the word out about Alkaline Water.
Some people are afraid of the truth and others don’t want you to know the truth. It’s a lot like our government. The more that they are afraid of what you have to say the more they try to tear you down.
While the water is not the end all and all medical cure, it is a step in the right direction of cleansing the body so that it can do it’s job of healing it’s self.
The realistic fact is that people need to recognize the truth about Alkaline Water and all the benefits it will give you. We need to get the word out about Alkaline Water. The AMA and the Big Drug Companies do not want you to know the water really does work. They would be out of business if we all were healthy and did not need them any longer. The water really works. It cleanses the body of contaminants that we put it by everyday living, floods your body with antioxidants that lets the body do its job of healing itself, and restores your natural wellness.
For instance, this is how antioxidant are measured, the more negitive -mV the higher antioxidant level. Tap Water has positive +400 to +500mV, Wheat-Grass Juice has an negative O.R.P. (antioxidant) of -120mV. Which is good. Real fresh squeezed Orange Juice has a negative O.R.P. of -250mV. Which is better. A good water ionizer machine can get over -800mV. in one glass. This is as close as we can ever hope to get to a Fountain of Youth. In addition, irrespective what Machine you buy, the alkaline water is going to help you feel better. Check it out for yourself and you make the call. Do You Want To Feel Good for a Change?
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Hi Mike:
Thanks for your contribution. I love your enthusiasm.
I agree with much of what you say, but I need to just put a put a bit of perspective on some of the numbers that you presented.
I believe the ORP for fresh orange juice is actually a less negative than you posted, but the real point is that fresh orange juice does have a negative ORP.
Your claim that a good water ionizer can produce an ORP of -800 leaves itself open to debate and a number of factors. For instance, if you are only looking for healthy drinking water so that you won’t get sick, you would never drink water with an ORP of -800. Tap water will have different source water locations will have widely different positive ORP values. I have heard some ORP values as high as +800 in Oregon. The tap water where I live generally varies from +220 to +260, but I have tested it as low as +180 and as high as +280. Every different source water will have a different ORP value and the values from one location will change all the time. The ORP that comes out of a machine is dependent upon the ORP of the source water. The ORP of the output water will also depend upon the minerals or salts in the water and the amount of power that is delivered across the ionizing plates. To make matters even more confusing, water at 70 degrees F will typically have a lower ORP by about 40mv than the same source water taken at the same time from a tap. The entire issue of ORP and its effectiveness as a measure is up for debate.
Claims of the Fountain of Youth are too heavy on the sales pitch for me, but I agree with you that drinking alkaline ionized water helps a lot of people.
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I’m just curious. I live in Oregon and got sick here. Can you tell me where the high OPR ratings you were talking about are located.
Thanks,
JILL
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I just need some help and some good advice. I was lloking to buy a water ionizer, I usually turn to consumer reports to check and buy the best buy for you buck. I don’t want to buy a an expensive water ionizer but I don’t want some cheap one that breaks down in 6 months either. Please help and tell where are you recommendations.
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Hi Jose:
Good advice depends upon one’s perspective. A person selling a $4,000 water ionizer will have different “good” advice that a person selling a $400 Antioxidant filter. If you want to go with a water ionizer in order to take advantage of a full spectrum of pH levels, you can find excellent products with good track records, good warranties, and good reputations for about $1,500. If you just want the benefits of the drinking water plus water purification, you can buy Antioxidant Filters for $400.
I planned to start doing videos of various machines a month ago, but I got caught up in the Antioxidant Filter story because the new technology if the first real breakthrough in years. Now that I have written a bunch of stuff about the machines, I will get back to more general topics about water and diets and health and hopefully making some product review videos.
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I have a portable water distiller and I have been drinking the distiled water for about 3 years now becasue I can’t trust the darn tap water. I can’t say its a miracle water but I have been less sick since I have been drinking it. Now I hear that I shouldn’t be drinking it becasue is dead water. The food taste better when I cook with it and even the coffee taste better. Any advice or thoughts. I am risking my health by drinking it?
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Hi Jose:
Distilled water is definitely dead water as it is completely devoid or any substance other than pure water. Unless you are taking supplemental essential vitamins and minerals, or you eat an extraordinarily healthy diet, your body will most likely start leaching calcium out of your bones and teeth at some point, if it hasn’t started already. The blood in your body is very demanding and will “steal’ whatever it needs to from wherever it needs to in order to make up for any deficiency. The RO people claim that the body can’t absorb minerals from water, but I had sure talked to a lot of people who have suffered from prolonged use of dead water and who recovered once they stopped.
It is hard to argue with the fact that you are feeling better. I would just make sure that you get checkups and have you doc look our for any sign of mineral deficiency. If you love your water, just make sure you supplement properly
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Hi Rob,
Thanks for a very interesting article. Before I read this article, I drank 500ml of water with Dr Hayashi’s Hydrogen water stick. I didn’t feel bloated /nauseated after drinking the 500 ml straight up which I would normally feel. I have used the water stick for the first time and bought it from US as I could not find a seller here in the UK.
I stumbled upon your website as I am trying to know more about Dr. Hayashi’s water stick. I actually bought it after purchasing the Chanson water ionizer. Unfortunately, the Chanson didn’t fit my tap so I have to send it back. I needed an alternative and my internet research led me to Dr. Hayashi’s Hydrogen water stick. Would you know of any side effects or harm of that particular water stick?
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Hi Kara:
Thanks for your comments on the Hydrogen stick.
I have written in the past about the fact that ionized water passes immediately through the stomach while tap water or bottled water remains in the stomach for half an hour or more while it is being processed. Hence, the difference when it comes to experiencing bloating or not.
I have become a big believer in Dr. Hayashi’s work. In fact, I’m tossing around the idea of writing an article on whether the “live” water is better for us that the “electrocuted” water produced by electrolysis based water ionizers. I have lots of ammunition for the article except for one major factor, which is the fact that water ionizers work. How can I tell people that the Hydrogen produced by non-electric water ionizers is better for you when there is evidence from hundreds of thousands of people world wide that have benefitted from the more traditional water ionizers.
I have used a Hydrogen water stick and it works. The benefit is that it is very inexpensive. The downsides to the water stick are primarily that they are a nuisance to use and they don’t filter the water. In addition, if you want stronger water, it is recommended to use two or three sticks and that becomes expensive as the sticks don’t last very long.
I don’t know if Hydrogen sticks produce harmful side effects or not, but I doubt it. I do know that if you leave the sticks in the water too long, the manufacture recommends throwing out the water. The reason for this is that the stick continues to ionize the water as long as it remains in the water. As a result, the water will develop a metallic taste which is unpleasant. I don’t think the water can actually hurt you in any way.
The answer to the issues presented by the Hydrogen sticks are the Antioxidant filters. The Antioxidant filters use the same process as the Hydrogen sticks in that their performance is created primarily by running water across a magnesium media. However, the Antioxidant filters offer so much more than the Hydrogen sticks. The Anitioxidant filters are much more powerful and they remove chlorine, chloramine, fluoride, VOCs, THMs, lead, mercury, bacteria and more from the water. In addition, the Antioxidant filters can produce the filtered antioxidant water on demand rather than waiting for small batches.
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Could anyone here tell me more about this amazing product?
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Hi Tom:
What do you want to know? I have written about 100 articles about water on my blog, so you might want to sift throught the titles to see what tickles your interest.
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I know a family who all developed kidney stones (parents and children) just a few months after they started to drink ionized water from a machine that cost around $1000. It was caused by the inorganic minerals in the water . The family dumped the ionizer in favor of a water distiller, and their kidney stones gradually dissolved away. I know of another man, with one kidney, who also developed a kidney stone after drinking alkaline water and it put him in hospital. He died of a heart attack while he was there. I would never consider drinking ionized water now.
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Hi B Parker:
I would appreciate it if you would email me privately with the contact information of the people that suffered from kidney stone problems after drinking water from an electric water ionizer. I will contact them to learn their stories and publish the details on this site. When people make claims, either good or bad, I’m always happy to follow up to verify the story. Otherwise, anyone can say anything.
I have read varying information about ionized water and kidney stones. One of the manufacturers specifically mentions in their User Manual that people with kidney issues should consult their physician before using their machines. The man that runs Chanson in the USA personally told me that he recommends that anyone with kidney problems will do well if they drink water from the machines his company produces.
All manufacturers that I know of always recommend that customers consult with their physician before drinking water from their machines.
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I’ve been plodding through ionized water / alkaline water / cluster water / random-shaped water sites for about an hour. The marketing claims are absolutely ridiculous.
One pair of statements that I find particularly entertaining is when a pro-Kangen site disparages other brands for using mesh electrodes, and touts its SOLID plate electrodes – and states that the mesh manufacturers are doing it save on costs; then in the next statement says that solid plates offer more surface area and trumpets that surface area is important to electrolysis (which it rightly is.)
The reality there is that the mesh plate DOES have more surface area, and the solid plate would actually be cheaper to manufacture because it requires less platinum to coat. (Titanium costs around $13/lb. Platinum is around $1700/oz (that’s 2092 times more expensive than the titanium.))
I unfortunately had to start looking into this because my sister was exposed to its wondrous benefits by her boss’s yuppie wife. They had her gargle the pH2.5 water for a sore throat and extolled its virtues for alleviating the soreness.
You can get the same result from mouthwash (I happen to have a leftover antibiotic prescription mouthwash that I save for sore throats, myself), or any number of sanitizing solutions (star san, iodine, hell – you could even use bleach.)
Scamsters depend on anecdotes and shame, and I can’t find one thing to disagree with on Dr. Lower’s site (which I only found thanks to this post.) Ensuring that people have to buy a tiny, worthless (literally, and relative to the price point) machine that costs more than a top of the line refrigerator is a pretty damn good method to crank up the shame factor.
(Just thought about another boast – that these machines are all hand made. Of course they’re “hand made” (really just assembled from injection molded and stamped parts) – they’re not going to invest in automated/robotic production equipment for a $50 machine with thousands of dollars in profit margin built in – especially when it’s a scam.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
(Just add a little more yellow.)
(P.S. If it were just a case of promoting ionized water for health reasons, I (personally) would just chalk it up to placebo effect and let any believers continue to believe and be happy – but the ridiculous amount of money being bilked from people on blind faith is criminal.)
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hi RCB;
Thanks for taking the time to write to us. Based upon your comments, I have to believe that you have spent far more than one hour researching the topic of water ionizers.
I have to disagree with you on a number of issues. First off, Stephen Lower doesn’t know what he is talking about when it comes to ionized water. He is the quack in this situation and he has admitted to people that the water “probably works”. He has been invited to test the water at any facility of his choosing, using technicians and equipment of his choosing, at his convenience, and with no expense to him. The man refuses all attempts to provide him with evidence. He has zero credibility.
Your comment about the Kangen units being “hand made” is legitimate. However, I believe that Kangen talks about each unit being handled through the entire assembly process by an individual. Personally, I think the Kangen methodology of assembly seems inefficient, but I have to admit that I have never witnessed the process. Your comment about a $50 machine is way offside. The claims that I heard Laurie Tauscher make on a Kangen conference call about the cost to make the unit are equally absurd.
I just can’t agree with you that the benefits of ionized water are a placebo effect. While the placebo effect can be very powerful, just like positive thinking, there is no possible way that a placebo effect could have made all the changes that myself and so many others have experienced.
I do agree with you that the prices being charged on most of the products on the market is much higher than they should be. The good news is that the market place will fix that over time. In the meantime, I will keep doing my best to make the water more affordable to everyone.
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I have read every post and comment on here and would like to know your final say in these economic times, what would you buy to do the best job(health wise) for the least money the Alkastream or the Enagic?
Thanks,
Bob
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Hi Bob:
I have just posted an article declaring my endorsement of the Alkastream. I have remained unbiased since I began writing the blog, but it is impossible to ignore the fact that the Alkastream provides the same health benefits from drinking water offered by electric water ionizers plus it has a great filter that removes fluoride and chloramine….for $400. I only came to the conclusion that the Alkastream is the hands down winner in terms of value after the company made many improvements to the machines and after I had been drinking the water for months.
I assume I will get clobbered in the comments section for my “bias”, but I would invite anyone who disagrees to do so based upon personal testing so that they can provide an honest assessment. I had always hoped for a more affordable machine that costs less than $1,000 and now consumers can get one for $400.
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hey Rob! Just checking in. Any updates on that 49.99 under counter adaptor for the Alkastream? have not heard much about it lately.
Thanks!
ML
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Hi Mike:
They should be arriving soon, as in next week, but who knows. My past experience with importing makes me a “show me” guy as the delivery dates always seem to change. The Alkastream website has a pic of the under counter kit now which is selling for $69. Apparently, the manufacturer is charging for the alternative cap, which probably explains the difference in price.
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Hi Rob,
Excellent description on Stephen Lower and his article. I’ve often wondered how many alkaline water enthusiasts actually started their passion with a read of his web article. I’ll bet it’s a lot! I know I did. Fortunately, most if not all of us who accept personal responsibility for our education, philosophy and our wellness quotient already know to see through this type of mumbo jumbo. All the best to you and your family. Good work!
Yours,
Kirk Phinney
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Hi Kirk:
It is great to see you join us.
For those that don’t know Kirk, he is the man behind the Revolutionizer anitoxidant filter.
Kirk and Mike Hanley were the driving force behind the creation and expansion of the IonWays MLM system.
I don’t know what philosophical differences developed as I am not that close to the story, but Kirk and Mike left IonWays to start up their own company. As soon as the guys left, IonWays slapped a lawsuit on them to prevent them from selling. I have written about this issue in the past. In my article, I suggested that IonWays took the action in order to prevent the guys from taking the majority of the system with them and to buy IonWays time to get their own antioxidant filter ready for the market. IonWays also introduced the Naia and Spartan antioxidant filters out of nowhere at the same time to give their Dealers something to talk about and to combat the Revolutionizer. All a bit childish imo, but IonWays was fighting for their survival.
I was recently contacted by Jacqueline, one of our readers, who brought me up to date on what is going on with the Revolutionizer and their other products. It seems like they are finally getting back in the saddle, which is great news for consumers. Alkastream has been the only kid on the block for a few months and it is great to see some competition. While IonWays appeared to be the early favorites, they have blown themselves away by offering a similar product for $1,499. I have talked to a number of IonWays Dealers who won’t touch their $1,499 antioxidant filter. The Dealers realize that they don’t have a chance of being successful against the lower priced products that offer essentially the same product. I know the IonWays people will jump all over me for saying that, but in the big picture, it is the same product for 5 times the price of an Alkastream. At $499, the Revolutionizer offers a MLM product that people can actually afford.
You can take a look at Kirk and his wife Cathy demonstrating their Revolutionizer on YouTube at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGCYgYWy2d0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
I haven’t had a chance to test the Revolutionizer, but I understand that it performs well. I would expect it to perform well, as it is based upon the same technology as the Alkastream.
I hope that Kirk is successful with his new company as he is offering the public another low cost and effective alternative to electric water ionizers.
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Hi Rob,
I need to filtrate and alkalize whilst on the go, is this feasible? What would you recommend please?
many thanks
Guy
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Hi Guy:
Since you are in Australia, I would hook up with the Alkaway people in Byron Bay NSW. I think they carry the Alkapod, the Fil2Pur bottles, and the Alkasteam, depending upon how portable you want to be.
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thanks! is there something that will filter as well as alkalize? And how should i incorporate water with my raw 8o% fruit and greens juice diet?
thanks again
Guy
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Hi Guy:
The Alkastream will definitely filter and ionize. It just depends upon how portable you need the unit to be. The Alkapod and the Hydrogen sticks don’t filter the source water. Talk to the guys at Alkaway about the portable bottle they are working on that will purify and ionize. They are currently using the Fil2Pur with ionizing sachets, but I understand they are working on a more permanent solution.
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Hi Rob,
I’ve been following with great interest this latest comment thread between yourself and “Patricia”. It’s pretty clear that Patricia is an Enagic Rep who is very passionate about that particular company and it’s main machine model called the SD-501. Enagic is truly a great company and their product line when compared against other water ionizers in the market is of very high quality. But as Rob points out throughout his Blog Site, there are many issues and variables affecting these machines. The comments regarding Japanese Gov’t endorsements is also right on. Those “certifications” are bought and paid for as all of them are (at one level or another). I’ve personally been to certified independent lab studies where I’ve seen with my own eyes various machines perform better than the SD-501 but I gotta say also that none of them had the quality construction throughout that the SD-501 does. Sort of like comparing a 1970′s Saab or Volvo against a newer model car with all the modern electronic bells and whistles. There’s just a durability of construction there that’s tough to argue against.
However, raw body strength alone is not a final deciding factor. The alteration of the water produced by the Enagic machine was substandard to that produced by the IonWays Athena. I saw this myself time and time again. Also, no one could argue that the Enagic on-board filtration system bites bigtime. It’s basically a small cheesy overpriced carbon filter that does nothing more really than filter out some chlorine and protect the water cell from a too speedy death.
As far as taking apart and examining the various machines go, I’ve seen lots of them to the point of looking like that StarWars scene where all the robot droids are taken apart. I believe that all of them have a long way to go towards being a final practical solution. The best Electrical Units I’ve seen are the true commercial industrial water ionizing units that sell for $7,500 and up. Those are the true workhorses but even they have replaceable water cell modules that are meant to be changed out after several thousand hours. Other than that, I’ll stick with our current non electric systems in terms of true healthy water quality plus antioxidant alteration while also factoring in the price/ cost and market affordability elements. If you want a microwave style system that electrically stimulates the water thinking somehow that this is healthy for you then go with it! Maybe the designers can eventually get them to actually boil the water too and then we’ll really have something! A true ionized water coffee machine!
Rob, you know that “our team” in IonWays sold over 13,000 machines in two years and there’s not much in the market that I haven’t seen, used myself and taken apart when it comes to these units.
Bottom line…..there’s pros and cons to all of them just as you say. No one unit is the clear superior. The prices range all across the universe. Is it worth it to pay $3,800 plus for the “body only” quality that you get with the SD unit? In my opinion, only to the extent that doing so helps you make money with their Distributor System. But I gotta add also……In this nightmare market that most are experiencing today, the value of a well paying home business and a well paying Independent Distributorship really can’t be beat!!! So if it’s working well for you Patricia then ride that pony diligently as far as you possibly can and ring the bell loudly at every turn!
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Hi Kirk:
Great post. For those that don’t know Kirk, built the IonWays MLM team. He left IonWays last year to start up his own MLM company called the Revolution. Their company sells various products including an antioxidant machine call the Revolutionizer.
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I had a life threatening medical condition at the first of this year. I was about to go on some serious drugs, when my body told me it was a bad idea. Shortly thereafter, I was introduced to Cindy Black at LifeClinic. After about an hour with her, she said she could fix me up quickly, now realize i was planning my funeral.
Encouraging me to stop taking some meds, adding some vitamins, etc and drinking alkaline water, I was starting to feel better in about a week! I starting getting Enagic water from a friend on a daily basis, and started my research on what to purchase. After lenghty study, confusion by all the crap out there, I choose the AlkaStream. After 60 days of use I am feel better, looking better than I have in 5 years and have more energy. I’m trimmer, lost that belly fat, and happier than I have been in years. I have recommended Cindy and Alkaline water to many friends! I’m done with the medical community!
I have a Hanna HI98121 tester and frequently test the ph and orp of my water to see how long the filter will last, hopefully the 6 months they advertise. I’ll let you know how it goes. So far excellent results.
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Hi Tracy:
Thanks for sending in your comments.
I love hearing stories like yours. It is great to hear about people who do their research and reach beyond the prescription drug trap. I made the same decision a few years ago.
I checked out Cindy’s website. I see that she sells Enagic machines. Did you talk to Cindy about Enagic and other machines before you purchased an antioxidant filter? Have you talked to Cindy about your results with your low cost machine now that you have been using it for 60 days? It is great that a professional is incorporating ionized water in her practice. Hopefully she will be open to investigating low cost machines that provide the same benefits.
It will take time, but eventually people are going to recognize the fact that the antioxidant filters, which sell for a fraction of the price of the electric water ionizers provide the same great health benefits.
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Yes Cindy does push the Enagic very hard, almost to the point of saying there is nothing else that will work as reliably. And I agree based on electrical systems it probably is the best most reliable. But still it is a machine which will eventually break. I wasn’t willing to spend that kind of money without a thorough investigation. Lets face it I was just ripped off by the medical community for tens of thousands of dollars and wasn’t taking anything on blind faith.
Yes I have talked to her about the AlkaStream and she is anxious to here my results as I continue to test the water. I actually feel better than when I drank the Enagic water for 90 days. We’ll see, maybe it just a cumulative effect.
The enagic does have some very good qualities such as the high acidic water for washing, thats a great benefit I don’t realize.
Stay in touch and I’ll tell you how it proceeds.
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Hi Tracy:
Thanks for replying.
I think that if I was a consumer who was going to purchase a machine for quasi-commercial use (very high demand requirements), I would purchase an SD501 or perhaps even get a stronger model. There is no question that the SD501 is a workhorse.
When it comes to money, if something works and there is no alternative, it is very difficult to ascertain a value. If you have cancer and a machine or pill or herb or a healer gets rid of the cancer, then what is the solution worth? When it comes to water ionizers, they all work, which allows us to comparison shop. If I can purchase something for $329 that provides the benefits that I’m looking for, I would choose it over a a unit that costs $3,980, but that’s just me. I don’t need to pay the most for anything….I just want something that works.
The antioxidant filters don’t produce acid water. My wife uses the acid water all the time. There are a number of variables that need to be considered before someone buys a machine. There is definitely no “one size fits all”.
I’m happy to hear that Cindy has an open mind. I can understand her loyalty to Enagic as it is drummed in, but of greater importance, the machines work. It will be very difficult to talk anyone who is loyal to Enagic to consider something else because they are so heavily invested in the machine in terms of both money and the story.
Please keep us in the loop.
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Rob,
Great blog. I am a mechanical engineer and from my research alkaline water makes a lot of sense. I am particularly interested in it’s anti-aging and anti-cancer qualities. The lights went on after reading about Dr. Otto Warburg’s Nobel prize for discovering that cancer cells are anaerobic (which as I understand means they can only exist in an acidic environment). So it makes sense that if we can shift our body fluids to the basic side of the spectrum, cancer cells should die. I have had a Jupiter machine for years but have not identified the water as beneficial. I am chalking this up primarily to the irregularity of my consumption. I recently hooked the machine back up and am giving this another study. I have a few questions about the theory of drinking alkaline water as the way to an alkaline body:
1. If our stomach secrets hydrochloric acid onto everything we ingest, won’t that immediately neutralize any alkaline substance we ingest? In other words, how does the alkaline water get into our system if it has to pass through our highly acid stomach?
2. When I first purchased my Jupiter machine, I got PH strips to measure the acidity of my saliva and urine. It seems I never could get out of the acidic range. Is this the proper way to monitor a body’s alkalinity?
3. I have discussed alkalinity before with doctors and they have said the same thing that I read on the web in numerous places, that one way to become more alkaline is by drinking lime juice, eating fruit like grape fruit etc. That has me really confused because limes and grapefruits are definitely acidic. Can you speak to that?
Thanks for you help.
-David
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Hi David
Welcome onboard! I have never tested my saliva properly so I will not answer to your #2 question, but I could maybe help you out with #1 and #3
#1 About the stomach acid:
Stephen Lower has created a very ugly and simple page who tries to debunk alkaline ionized water, which amazingly ranks top on the search engines
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
And here is a rebuttal of his poor arguments and lack of knowledge.
http://www.alkaway.com.au/information-alkaline-ionized-water-snake-oil.html#axzz1V6pMNcih
You will find the section Stomach Acidity further down.
It makes at least sense to me especially when you drink alkaline ionized water on empty stomach it feels like the body absorbs it much faster than regular water and there are no acid pool just laying in an empty the belly.
#3 citrus fruits are only organic acid which you can taste but turns to alkaline ashes inside your body. Difference with this alkaline ionized water is that it is already bioavailable for the body to absorb which fruits aren´t.
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Well my acid level was so high that I could turn a piece of brass in my hand making my skin so black as to think it was going to fall off. Once I started with the alkaline water it quickly went away. For two reasons that I both felt and invesitgated. The water changers broke the water modecule down to the point it could be absorbed in the lining of the mouth and stomach. Therefore an early morning glass went right into my body. Myself as well and dehydrated friends have felt a rush upon drinking the water the first few time. Also one can drink the water at very large quantities and never feel bloated.
Also evaorpated water is true it can’t conduct electricity, but the water with a negative ORP has essential minerals that can, thus the anti-oxidant benefit.
I have never seen such a controversial subject. The truth must be trying to be hidden. I am alive becuase if this water. Results are proof to me.
In Africa they have a saying that, ” if you see someone throwing rocks at the mango tree, you know it bears good fruits.” That is tue in life, forces debunk (throw rocks at) the truth at every turn.
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I would be curious if you have ever tried a vitalizer plus machine with either distilled water or reverse osmosis water. and what your impression of it was. I look forward to hearing on this.
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Hi Leonard:
I haven’t hear of the Vitalizer plus. I checked out their website and found it interesting.
I’m not convinced of the claims behind the vortex theory. The hypothesis has been around a long time and has never gained any traction in the scientific community or even with strong anecdotal support. I’m surprised the company leads off their sales pitch with the vortex card.
I would really like to see the scientific evidence or demonstrations of the evidence of micro clustering/hexagonal water (hello Dr. Hayashi). I’m not saying microclustering doesn’t exist, but I find it odd that it is talked about so much in the world of water ionizer sales and yet nobody provides any evidence.
I do support their mineralization method of creating ionization.
The company doesn’t address contaminants.
I would have to say that the price of $497 seems high to me based upon what else is out there in the market place. Perhaps I might change my mind if I actually tested the machine, but my wife has made me promise not to buy any more machines! If you work with the company, send me a machine and I will test it and send it back to you.
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Hi Rob,
Thanks for the great job you are doing.
As you said, all ionizers really works. Does it more benificial if I use purified water that comes out from reverse osmosis and pass through UV system with low TDS in it?
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Hi Rick:
I recommend that anyone who uses a Reverse Osmosis system should purchase a non-electric/antioxidant filter. The reason for my recommendation is that RO systems remove the minerals from the water and make the water acidic. Electric water ionizers require the source water to have minerals in order to work, which means that RO systems work against electric water ionizers.
Antioxidant filters introduce minerals to the water, which allows them to work well with RO systems.
Anyone that has an RO system and an electric water ionizer can introduce minerals into the water supply after the RO system and before the electric water ionizer. This setup is costly and usually doesn’t work as well as installing a much more affordable antioxidant filter.
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Rob,
In response to your original post, 1)where is the proof that big pharma is trying to debunk alkalized water?
They don’t need to debunk anything, only convince people to take their drugs. 2) Dr lower’s website is most likely ranked high because it is one of the only ones that offers an opposing view to all the water hype out there.
3)You can not discredit someone for not attending a demonstration. 4)So where is all the medical research in support of alkalized water? If it is what people say it is and people truly have good intentions selling all these machines why have they not done the research? How about a pilot study? Where are the doctors and researchers who support its use? Any links would be helpful. 5) you say thousands of people may have been tricked by his gibberish, come on! How about all the people that were tricked into buying a water machine based on some wild claims. There are many people out there that have these machines and it did not help them. I respect your intentions in trying to get the word out about the benefits of water but until there is good clinical evidence for its use all the talk on your website is just gibberish.
John
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Hi John:
I have talked to Lower. Others that I know have talked to Lower. He admits that the water probably works but is unwilling to attending testing sessions at his convenience.
There is lots of medical research about alkaline water if you choose to search for it. At the moment, there is a big study underway at the University of Washington that should add “American” credibility.
My site may be my “gibberish” to you, but I personally know hundreds of people besides myself that have been helped by the water. A few of those people have been saved from terminal cancer diagnoses.
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A past friend of mine introduced me to Kangen Water. But because I have been burned really badly with MLM, I decided to look elsewhere. I stumbled onto Life Ionizer. I am planning on getting it in the near future; actually, I am thinking about becoming a dealer where I can make $500 per machine, and enjoy the benefits at the same time. Actually, there is no one in our state that apparently sells it. I know a person with Parkinson’s disease, and I am planning to forward your article to him. Thank you so much for your input.
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Hi Marilyn:
Welcome to the wacky world of the water ionization industry. The machines are all great. I wish I could say the same about the companies that offer them.
I think that if you invest a little more time into investigating the various companies in the industry, you will discover that there are other brands that you might prefer to represent. I would never work with the owner of Life Ionizers myself for several reasons.
However, it doesn’t matter what I think. Buying or selling water ionizers is a personal choice and you should go with your instincts once you have done your homework. Starting a business is a lot more involved than buying a machine for your own personal use. If you want to talk privately about this, I would be happy to share my thoughts if you leave me an email with your telephone number and a convenient time to call. My email address is contact@waterfyi.com
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